Regner Mh6 & 399

Yours looks a lot better now Bruce ... just need to put the dome on the right way round and it will be spot on
I'm looking at the possibility of tender pick-ups but at present sorting out another electrical problem ..... the motor is 12 volt and my "5 volt" Massoth smoke unit does not switch on until 7.5 volts. I am going to build an 8 volt regulator for the smoke and wire 12x diodes in series with the motor to slow it down and enable it to run on 20 volts. Then I will have to alter the sound unit timings. All extra hassle. Will all need to be switched as well so that it can be isolated.

Quote :

I'm not sure these will have much resale value anyway

Aaarrrggghhh, don't say that Bruce ..... I'll be looking to sell my 399 later on .... I've decide one is enough ...

MzB wrote:

Yours looks a lot better now Bruce ... just need to put the dome on the right way round and it will be spot on

Oi! Stop counting rivets! Not sure I'd know how to get that off... but you just know I'm going to have to go and look at some pictures now... here's a good resource, and a short video clip, before it failed elctrically (again). The test is, will it do 5 circuits without stopping unexpectedly or making a new funny noise... the answer so far is "no"...

The loco looks very impressive.
Bruce - I admire your tenacity
Andy - same for your attention to detail.

Is it possible to fit a 24 volt motor, such as a Buhler ?

I suppose it is possible to fit a 24 volt motor ... as long as it fits within the space allocated and can be bolted onto the cradle. There seems to be a gearbox fitted to the end of the motor before the flexi driveshaft connects to the brass differential unit on the drive axle.

Regarding detail, have to be careful with Mh6 .... it runs with a choice of two tenders and have to be sure I'm looking at the right one.
At some stage in the Engerth history, they all received new tenders of welded construction and when Mh6 was rebuilt into its retro (as built) style it originally ran with its welded tender. Construction of a brand new riveted tender was started in 2000 at Ober Grafendorf, and today, there is a spare tender knocking about. The welded tender has different detailing. All the other 399's preserved today are still running about with the later welded tenders. I don't like the welded tenders as I find it difficult to count the rivets.

Thanks for posting those pics Andy - the construction becomes much clearer.

I wonder how close dimensionally, it is to a Rugens chassis ?

Funny you should mention that .... a guy in Austria has scratchbuilt an Mh using what looks like a Rugen chassis .... looks good apart from the red wheels .... I'm sure he won't object to my posting one of his pics here at low res ...

I have started a build log on my website where I can keep everything compact and in one place, although I will still post here on the CGT forum.

http://www.freewebs.com/mariazellerbahn/regnermh6399buildlog.htm

MzB wrote:

Funny you should mention that .... a guy in Austria has scratchbuilt an Mh using what looks like a Rugen chassis .... looks good apart from the red wheels .... I'm sure he won't object to my posting one of his pics here at low res ...

An excellent effort - I wouldn't like to attempt the motion construction though.
Looking forward to seeing yours built.

Hi Andy,Bruce.
I`ve bounced this thread back.
Any progress or running reports on the Regners.



Van

Ah... yes. To continue the saga... I'd just about got it running sweetly when I took it to the G Scale Society meeting in Altrincham. I was going to "borrow" some loctite to fix one of the wheels onto it's axle 'cos it kept slipping off. Anyway, after I'd done so, the gearbox jammed up totally. No, I hadn't glued it up. When I pushed the wheels round, and freed them, I realised that the gear wheel inside the (sealed) unit had now come free on the shaft. It free wheeled away... and it's damn heavy...

I decided this was Martin's Models' problem, not mine. I took the loco back to him at Stoneleigh (16mm Assn bash), which I'd not planned to visit (175 mile round trip), and collected it at a GSS West Midlands meeting a couple of weeks later (another 175 mile round trip I'd not planned on). Anyway, the repair solved most of the glitching/jamming problems I'd been having immediately. Martin let on that he'd had to rebuild another gearbox as well. Given that there are only 5 in the country, two have already had their gearboxes rebuilt, one hasn't been run yet and two are unfinished kits (or maybe finished ones, Andy?), that isn't impressive.

At this point I finally had a machine that worked well enough that I could pin point the issues accurately. They are, and remain:
- the finescale wheels don't care much for LGB pointwork, even where I've extended the checkrails.
- the rigid wheelbase with limited springing and lack of pickups on the tender mean that current collection remains hit and miss.
- the steel wheels pick up dirt very quickly.
- the pickup design (a washer making a loose, and therefore intermittent, connection on the back of a Massoth/LGB plunger pickup) means that current collection is very poor indeed. It is not possible to solder these (now) without disassembling the entire motion and dropping the axles.

To remedy the above, I installed roller bearing wheel sets in a baggage van and wired them through to the motor. This gives some "articulation" in the power pickup arrangements and with chrome wheels to boot.

Result: it's not too bad a runner, now. Finally.

blimey, that really is a cautionary tale. Don't think they'll ever be on my shopping list!

Mikey

This isn't the van I've used but it's similar... looks ok to my eye anyway.

From H&DLR public album photos

I met Martin of Martin's Models at Dave Dowlings running day near the Welshpool and Llanfair Railway.
He wasn't very talkative as he was fettling a live steam Regner "Victoria".

However, James Dowling knows him quite well, and he said that the guy that builds steam locos for Martins Models lives near James in Mid Wales.
James said that the model maker was usually very fastidious when making up a model.

If the Mh6/399 had been able to negotiate R1 curves, I would have been sorely tempted.........

I hope your model runs well enough for your early woes to be forgotten Bruce - I must say, it certainly looks the part.

paul stainz holt wrote:

James said that the model maker was usually very fastidious when making up a model.

If the Mh6/399 had been able to negotiate R1 curves, I would have been sorely tempted.........

So I'm told, but I get the distinct impression that he was out of his depth/experience/interest/comfort zone with this (electric) one. I strongly suspect that it was bathed in oil when I originally received it in a desperate attempt to make it run tolerably smoothly. In fairness, the gearbox is supplied fully assembled by Regner, and the rebuild by Martin's builder has resolved some of the problems. Martin suggested that the gearbox failure was due to me reversing the locomotive too sharply. Would that I had been able to operate it that much. I suggest it was due to a poor design/build in the first place. It is supposed to negotiate R1, the build instructions clearly state that it can be so constructed. I doubt mine would negotiate R2 with the tender attached. It certainly should negotiate R2... but I haven't bothered spending out to re-lay a section of mixed R1 and R3 to all R2 to prove it.

It will go round Radius 1, but you need to allow the articulation bar more swing. The slot has been made to allow this extra swing, but there is a piece of bulkhead in the way (at front of slot each side) that needs to be filed carefully away. This is obviously a design oversight. Having said that, the loco even without its tender binds on Radius 1 to the point that it will ride up over the rail, but this can be eased a little by narrowing the gauge of the 1st and 4th axle slightly. This will also cause it to waddle ... which fortunately is characteristic of the class.

It is very easy to fit tender pick-ups ..... there are three holes on the centre bracing bar under the tender ..... cut a piece of thick plasticard 1½ inches wide by 1¾ inches long, then glue two ¼ inch outside diameter "Plastruct" tubes cut to 1½ inches at each end (you may wish to brace these). The tubes are a snug fit for LGB plunger pick-ups. Drill two holes in each tube to accept a small screw to be threaded in ..... these will act as stops for the pick-ups and as an electrical contact point. The whole assembly tucks under the bracing bar and screwed in via the two outer holes. You then just need to break into the other contact wires for complete connection.

Yes, I did consider that. I suspect fitting pickups to the tender is easier done while you're building it 'cos you'd be able to get at the different sub assemblies. It would be quite difficult on one that has been fully assembled without (at least) dropping the bogie. I didn't attempt that, because I was worried that if I dropped the bogie from the tender I'd end up with the securing nut loose inside the tender... with no way of getting to it without completely dismantling the tender. I may go back and have a go later, though - I did buy the various bits but opted for a van 'cos using a set of ball bearing wheels was just easier. It also proved my theory about needing to increase the pickup capability before I embarked on a more complicated job. I did consider fitting ball bearing pickup wheels to the tender but the axle journals and boxes bear no resemblance to the ones used by LGB.

No need to remove the bogie .... you make the centre hole large enough to fit over the bogie retaining nut .... attach via the outer smaller holes (which are already there on the tender bogie cross beam). The electrical connections are exactly the same as you must have already spliced into for the wagon .... no dismantling is necessary.
The tender bogie pivot is bolted to the chassis, then the bogie is attached to the pivot by a nut. Easy removal and refitting. Anyway, the top of the tender is just an interference fit, it is not actually attached to enable the retro fitting of a sound unit (and to access the pivot if you needed to for any reason) .... unless your builder used superglue, there are no attachment points.

MzB wrote:

attach via the outer smaller holes (which are already there on the tender bogie cross beam).

I've got too many thumbs and insufficiently dexterous fingers... seriously though, I bought threaded bolts which will make doing the job easier when I get round tuit. It's not that high on the list of priorities at the moment - like you I've slightly lost interest now I've made it work. I also had some doubts about using the tender wheels as they're also finescale and not chromed... but it would be a more elegant and flexible solution than a van.