First steaming of my new lawley

TEST Picture with Van present .



Let's hope it works !

B

carl hibbs wrote:

Interesting reply.

I would prefer to see Accucraft UK make that statement themselves but as you bought the loco from John and he is a dealer then he has made a statement with implications as quite clearly in the Accucraft instructions it says use only butane and that is also marked on the gas tank.

I must say I have never heard of this butane - propane separation in a cannister. I am going to find out more about that because that has implications too.

If it separates in the cannister it could separate in the loco's tank.

Pure propane in an Accucraft (or other) loco could lead to a serious accident and if there is even a slight risk of this happening by the liquified gas not mixing properly then that is alarming.

Imagine if that were the case. You filled you tank with a mixture of say 70/30 gas and left it for a while maybe a day or so. I occassionally leave (not Accucraft) locos 'gassed up' overnight at expos.
When you fire up you could get pure butane for 70% of tank capacity or PURE PROPANE for 30%.

Also if this mixture seperates out in the cannister which I also use as a blow lamp imagine the consequences of that.
You're soldering/brazing away and suddenly the temperature/flame dramatically drops or increases....... mmm

I can't really see how that would work, 2 similar LPG products albeit with different properties and diffierent operating pressures separating in the same recepticle. I have also checked on the can and I can't find anywhere that says 'shake well before use' or alike so I would rather question John's judgement there at the moment, sorry.

There was a big physics lesson on this subject over in GSM with no real conclusion.

At the end of day if you do some something different from what the instructions say then there is an element of risk.

I think your right Carl about gas seperation! I showed the guys the technique of giving the loco a little shake until the burner settles down when using a mix. We didn't find any probs today running the new Lawley, in fact it's a great loco.

Even better Van has left it with me for extensive running in!

B

GWhizz wrote:

... I showed the guys the technique of giving the loco a little shake until the burner settles down when using a mix. We didn't find any probs today running the new Lawley, in fact it's a great loco.

Even better Van has left it with me for extensive running in!

B

I have to inform you that under the forum rules, the lending of live steam locos to another member for whatever reason is forbidden unless the Administrator has first tried the aforesaid locomotive.

I could make a small exception in this case if you publish some more photos but don't do it again

BTW, What sort of running durations did you get?

Thank you for waiving Forum rules on this exceptional occasion!

Of course you could pop down with Geoff, over the weekend to help with testing!

B

Well a great day yesterday,although looking back, may at times be a bit difficult

(sorry Brian could not resist)


Anyway the three of us Brian,Mike and myself had a great day swopping bits of info and running trains.Mikey had problems with his loco and tender,the cable connections between the power pack(tender) and loco failing.Brian gave Mikey and I a quick demo on railing bending,also showing us his soldering technique on brass.First off Brian ran his Edrig,with its added cab and steam whistle it was a joy to watch it run round.
Had three runs with the lawley,1st run solo had a high scale speed,2nd run with 5 of Brian`s trucks and the 3rd run solo at a very slow speed,slow enough that she only just managed to climb the slight incline.She was a joy to watch,running so slow and smoothly.
We did not time the lenght of the runs but we chatted plenty so 15 minutes would not be far out.
In between all this Mikey and I were introduced to Sebastion and Belle and had a lovely lunch.
I think I can speak for Mike when saying thankyou to Brian for letting us loose on his track
and to Brian`s delightful wife Caroline for providing lunch.


So as not to loose this post I`ll try to post pics in the next post

Here we go
MikeyH setting up loco

I give up

Pics via email to you Carl

fm12 wrote:

Carl quote
[Propane is stored at higher pressures than butane hence the warning.

However in reality butane is pretty near useless at temperatures below freezing so cold Winter steamups with Accucraft machines are difficult.
Unofficially (and yes it could invalidate warranty) a little propane mix in winter is used with care.

I am going to place an order with Regner for some bits very soon (no not another steam loco....) and I will order a gas filler adaptor as mentioned in my earlier post.

If anyone else wants this adaptor too I will happily order several and pass them on to you at cost. Saves ordering individually.

They are also available from Ralph Reppingen and Hermann Echtdampf

I am very surprised that this adaptor to fit the cheap 190g butane stove/lamp cannisters is not available through Accucraft or their repair/service/accessory outlets.

These 190g cannisters are available in a variety of flavours. Pure Butane and various mixes and some self-sealing.

And.... despite what some people say on GSM I have found that cheap butane (from Korea and other non descript corners of the globe) IS different to more reputable suppliers, Rothernberg, Campinggaz etc...
My Roundhouse Carrie and Reppingen EKB get blocked jets with 'Chow Mein' butane.
It may not actually be the gas but particles of crap or moisture in the cannister.

Have to agree with the comments I too have doubts about Korean gas,I will try and stay with camping gaz or similar.
Have today checked my gas tank certiicfate and its tested to 600psi agreed this is not a working limit but a test pressure,so fuel tank pressures with any gas should not be a problem.
In the interests of longer fuel burn times and my wallet, I will switch to pure butane except when winter running.[/quote]

There is now another post on the gas subject.
For better, easier steam ups in winter with butane use a drinks insulater/tea cosy around the gas cannister and fill the boiler using warm water.

If you use a propane mix and heat the gas tank you could raise the pressure to over 300psi that is why Accucraft recalled and replaced the garrett tanks and valves.
See,
Accucraft news

Interestingly your gas tank is tested to 600psi....my 5 year old Caradoc the gas tank certificate says 150psi....

Some pics supplied by Van.



Van's Lawley hauls a rake of tankers up the incline towards "Coin de Peche"



Mike fettles one of his his battery powered loco's



You can edit this post directly yourself Van if you want to add some words to the pics.

[quote="carl hibbs"]There is now another post on the gas subject.
For better, easier steam ups in winter with butane use a drinks insulater/tea cosy around the gas cannister and fill the boiler using warm water.

[quote]

In another thread I was warned off using hot water to start as it would increase the gas run time vs the water boil off with a potential dry boiler??

All these contra views get very confusing, it seems that common sense and caution are the main pre-requisites when operating these potential bombs!

B

My Edrig certificate also states GAS TANK TESTED to 600 psi

B

My consistent advice has always been on any forum or in public to follow the instructions and not to modify your locomotive in a way that could affect the gas or boiler safety.

I quote...

'For better, easier steam ups in winter with butane use a drinks insulater/tea cosy around the gas cannister and fill the boiler using warm water.'

Don't use hot or boiling water.

Like you say, common sense prevails. Using warm water in winter to compensate a little for the cold is not contradicting that.

On a crisp frosty day it is often great to get outside and run a steam loco. Plumes of steam everywhere, a hot mug of tea, bacon, egg and garlic baguette......mmmm.

But you will need to make some sensible compensations for the drop in temperature if you want to achieve that.
Using warm water in sub zero temperatures with butane gas will not increase gas run times. You might get about 10mins!

BTW, my skeleton Edrig too has been gas tank tested to 600psi.
So that's three different levels of tests, 150psi-300psi-600psi in 5 years.

Van's Lawley is getting smoother with every run.

I managed to get a run in before the thunderstorms hit last evening!

One thing I have noticed, is that the Lawley wheels are set to a fractionally narrower gauge than my Edrig. This is presumably to compensate for the 0-6-0 configuration round R1 curves (which it can just about manage).

It does allow slight "yawing" and wobbly gait for want of better descriptions on less than perfectly straight track.

Is that normal?

B

Yes a small amount is normal.
You should be able to move the position of the wheels on the axles. On later Acccucraft there is a marked recess on the axle for the grub screw. On earlier models there isn't. Some fine adjustment should be possible if required.

carl hibbs wrote:

Yes a small amount is normal.
You should be able to move the position of the wheels on the axles. On later Acccucraft there is a marked recess on the axle for the grub screw. On earlier models there isn't. Some fine adjustment should be possible if required.

I wouldn't be tampering with the wheelsets or anything else for that matter until Van returns! And in the sense of IF IT AINT BUST - DON'T FIX IT i'm sure it won't be necessary.

I did (with Van's permission) clean the boiler bands back to a brass finish, they had been oversprayed maroon, and he preferred the look of the bands on the Edrig.

I have removed the body (4 screws) for test "running in" as it makes the regulator knobs much easier to reach and for steaming up!

Massive thunderstorms here at the moment so probably not running anything today!

B

Hi Brian keep up the good work.
I noticed there was plenty of give when I sat the lawley on a piece of track.Accucraft probably manufacture the wheelsets narrow so as to help the lawley round r1s.
Come next year when I start track laying,I`ve already decided on r2s as minimum and r5 points.Plus being a lazy bugger I`ve decided on level track with crossovers rather than gradients with a flyover.



Van sat in a layby near Perth with a 25 tonne load of paper.

Hi Van

On closer examination I found that the back to back wheelset is 40mm which is identical to the Edrig. The extra "play" is provided by a slightly wider chassis and the leading and trailing axles have about 5mm lateral freedom whereas the 0-4-0 Edrig is fixed.

I'm glad your planning an absolutely level track, otherwise I would strongly recommend r/c.
With a level track you'll be able to sit back with a glass of wine while she runs around smoothly.

She's nicely run in now, so she's cleaned, oiled and back in the box awaiting your return!

Brian in the storm swept Charente!

After reading the previous posts
i measured all my stock and rails, The LGB track appears to be all 42mm back to back and the bought rolling stock varies from 40 to 42, Would the extra on Vans Lawley be because its 030 (or UK 060)?

Mikey

mikeyh wrote:

After reading the previous posts
i measured all my stock and rails, The LGB track appears to be all 42mm back to back and the bought rolling stock varies from 40 to 42, Would the extra on Vans Lawley be because its 030 (or UK 060)?

Mikey

Shows what I know about French Railways, unaware of different axle configuration nomenclature!

Lessons required Mikey?

I messaged you on your gardenrail addy

Mikey

mikeyh wrote:

I messaged you on your gardenrail addy

Mikey

Not seen anything !

Two things....

1. IMVHO you don't need level track to enjoy live steam manual control.
Yes, agreed if you want to 'drive' it up and down gradients then yes r/c is good.

Accucraft especially will go up gradients on their own providing the gas and regulator are set to optimum......gained with (just a little) practice.
When they slow or stall on a gradient providing the gas is up enough (not too much...) they will build up steam pressure and move off when ready with often some nice sound effects.

2. French steam wheel arrangements are measured on one side only as Mikey rightly says.
But also they don't say the digits as such. They make a numbered phrase.

E.g. UK = 0-6-0 FR= 030, but they say "Zero-trente" ("oh-thirty").

A 2-6-0 (130) would be "Un-trente". A 2-6-2 (131) would be "un-trente et un" .
Or maybe it should be "Une-trente et une" etc..as a locomotive is female...

carl hibbs wrote:

1. IMVHO you don't need level track to enjoy live steam manual control.
Yes, agreed if you want to 'drive' it up and down gradients then yes r/c is good.

Accucraft especially will go up gradients on their own providing the gas and regulator are set to optimum......gained with (just a little) practice.
When they slow or stall on a gradient providing the gas is up enough (not too much...) they will build up steam pressure and move off when ready with often some nice sound effects.

Absolutely Carl

I have two gradients - slight and very steep.

With r/c Accucraft will negotiate both. With manual I love the stopping / build up to re-start on the slight gradient but on the steep, the downhill is too fast on even the leanest gas / steam regulator settings.

My point to Van, is I wish I'd built my upper circuit absolutely level, then you can enjoy absolutely smooth steady running, he has that opportunity, that's all ! I'm not advocating r/c, in fact I probably won't bother on my next live steam loco.

I'm advocating level portions of layouts for general use ( Mike will confer viz battery operation too) not r/c defacto for Live Steam.

Yes, I see your point in that if you want gradients then it's better to plan and engineer them deliberately rather than have accidental ones.

I have both!

The very steepest gradient I would recommend for manual running is about 1:40 on the straight and that is with care going down.
For radio control most will take 1:30 with a light load.