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 060 derailing?

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mikeyh

mikeyh


Location : Dordogne France

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 4:19 pm

Why does my 030 (uk 060) sometimes derail on radius one bends? The outer axle wheels are exactly the same distance apart as a 2 axle wagon. Is it the flanges on the middle wheels? Would grinding them off solve the problem?

mikey
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clive_t

clive_t


Location : Portsmouth, England

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 6:22 pm

Well an LGB Corpet should go round an R1, but i think the centre axle is allowed to slip from side to side by an appreciable amount, Failing that, then removing the flanges of the centre wheels would probably do it. My Roundhouse Lady Anne live steamer has flangless wheels on the centre axle. Having said that I have no R1 curves on my line, and only a small amount of R2.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAttlLHn3pZsTFrQUt00rgQ
mikeyh

mikeyh


Location : Dordogne France

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyWed Jun 23, 2010 6:28 pm

thanks Clive. I've only got one end of rad 1, I opened the other end out myself and theres no problem. I'll take the flanges off the middle wheels; got nothing to lose have I!

Mikey
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KleineDicke

KleineDicke


Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyThu Jun 24, 2010 2:05 am

Mike,
Three coupled LGB locos have horizontal and vertical play in the center driver to allow them to go around R1 curves. In other scales, flangeless drivers are more commonly used for the same reason. In some cases, real (full scale) locos also had flangeless or sliding drive wheels for tight curves.
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mikeyh

mikeyh


Location : Dordogne France

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyThu Jun 24, 2010 4:52 am

thanks for that Bill. I didnt know about the full-size engines as well!

Mikey
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KleineDicke

KleineDicke


Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyThu Jun 24, 2010 5:39 pm

See here for flangeless (a.k.a. blind) drivers: (about halfway down the page)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_wheel

For sliding axles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6lsdorf_axle
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mikeyh

mikeyh


Location : Dordogne France

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyThu Jun 24, 2010 5:48 pm

thats actually very interesting Bill. i had no idea there were so many different types!

Mikey
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KleineDicke

KleineDicke


Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyThu Jun 24, 2010 5:54 pm

Amazing what one can learn simply by surfing wikipedia. Here's an example of a locomotive with both blind drivers and sliding axles (a Russian 4-14-4). It was apparently still prone to derailments, though. No big surprise there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4-14-4 and
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/russ/russrefr.htm


Last edited by KleineDicke on Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
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clive_t

clive_t


Location : Portsmouth, England

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyThu Jun 24, 2010 7:08 pm

I understand that some British mainline engines had flangeless driving wheels in the centre - 9F for example. Apparently the reason the restored ones can't run on uk lines is that flangeless wheels are banned.
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAttlLHn3pZsTFrQUt00rgQ
Knotty Ash




Location : North Wales

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyFri Jun 25, 2010 7:11 pm

clive_t wrote:
I understand that some British mainline engines had flangeless driving wheels in the centre - 9F for example. Apparently the reason the restored ones can't run on uk lines is that flangeless wheels are banned.

Hi I have had to use r1's on a lot of my curves, I only use LGB and even the Hartz 2-10-2 will go around slowly Les
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mikeyh

mikeyh


Location : Dordogne France

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyFri Jun 25, 2010 8:23 pm

Wasnt the Harz 2-10-2 designed with special features to enable it to run on R1's?

mikey
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KleineDicke

KleineDicke


Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptyFri Jun 25, 2010 9:26 pm

mikeyh wrote:
Wasnt the Harz 2-10-2 designed with special features to enable it to run on R1's?

mikey
The LGB model actually has an articulated chassis; the two rearmost axles are separate from the front three. You can see it how the chassis is articulated on pages 5, 6, and 9 of this service diagram: http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_produktdatenbank/medien.nsf/medien/4995F6E6425FC35E8525715E004BA353/$FILE/21811-1.PDF

I hear it has a horrendous amount of overhang when run on R1s. Probably a lot of wear and tear on the track and drive as well. Even though it officially would run on R1, LGB recommended larger radius curves.
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Knotty Ash




Location : North Wales

060 derailing? Empty
PostSubject: Re: 060 derailing?   060 derailing? EmptySat Jun 26, 2010 4:58 am

KleineDicke wrote:
mikeyh wrote:
Wasnt the Harz 2-10-2 designed with special features to enable it to run on R1's?

mikey
The LGB model actually has an articulated chassis; the two rearmost axles are separate from the front three. You can see it how the chassis is articulated on pages 5, 6, and 9 of this service diagram: http://www.champex-linden.de/lgb_produktdatenbank/medien.nsf/medien/4995F6E6425FC35E8525715E004BA353/$FILE/21811-1.PDF

I hear it has a horrendous amount of overhang when run on R1s. Probably a lot of wear and tear on the track and drive as well. Even though it officially would run on R1, LGB recommended larger radius curves.

I agree the overhang is bad but I had to have one after being there last year with my son Kieth, I don't pick locos up after putting them on the layout, the old hands aren't safe Les
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