16mmngm Project Loco

The 16mmngm group have announced their first "project" loco. This is defined as a kit that can be put together with basic hand tools and does not require any machining. In many ways it is like a Roundhouse kit only using running components from suitable current manufacturers and a brass body kit initiated by the 16mm society as a non profit making enterprise.

The first loco is a Decauville 042 tank using Roundhouse running gear and laser/water cut detail body parts along with etched brass body components.

The loco is gas fired and convertible between 32 and 45mmm gauge and the kit price is expected to be around £500.

Will post more details as they become available but anyone wanting an etched body kit and detailing parts needs to contact the 16mm group. Running gear etc is from stock and this initial project loco will primarily use Roundhouse running gear.


David

I look forward to finding out more David. Thanks for anouncing this as I had no idea it was going on.

Interesting that their first locomotive is going to be French eh.....!

That just shows that there is an obvious interest and demand in the UK and that the manufacturers are not interested for other reasons.

When you have more details it will be worth posting on VML.

Ok the rest of the details known to date.

Prototype was built in 1897 by Decauville-Aine at Corbeil and was exported to Australia to Queensland Sugar Mills. It was preserved in Australia in 1963 and then in 1996 returned to the Bredgar and Wormshill Light Railway where it was rebuilt to full working order, numbered 7 and called "Victory".

The kit will require only basic assembly skills and the ability to soft solder and drill holes. All holes will be marked or in place and fold lines etched into the platework to faciliate folding.

To get the best price on some components it will be necessary to indicate interest and this should be done by emailing ""victory@16mm.org"".

Price of £500 is estimated for the complete loco and it will be possible to buy parts over a period of time to spread the cost.

The spec is dual gauge adjustable 32-45mm, gas fired with R/H burner and tank, R/H cylinders with simplified Walschaerts valve gear, R/H lubricator, R/H safety valve, pressure gauge, suitability for radio control and options to fit water top up and sight gauge.

Unfortunately, for me, it is a small loco (7 ton) and I prefer bigger ones but additionally the Association's next project loco will be a 4-6-0 and this is likely to be more to my taste.

This concept of a project loco is certainly one way forward, though I guess it will take significant pressure to budge the 16mmm Association away from their apparent obsession with twee little 2 foot engines and recognise that there is a large demand out there for bigger protypes especially in metre gauge.

David Grantham wrote:

Ok the rest of the details known to date.


This concept of a project loco is certainly one way forward, though I guess it will take significant pressure to budge the 16mmm Association away from their apparent obsession with twee little 2 foot engines and recognise that there is a large demand out there for bigger protypes especially in metre gauge.

Spot on David. No disrespect at all but there is a (much) bigger narrow gauge world out there than 'Jubilee track'.
I was a 16 mil modeller for while and still have some stock and track that may get laid again one day.

I will look at some pictures of the engine on the net before deciding if I'll get my wallet out!
A Decauville would be nice though!

Link to pics on the Bregar site


http://www.whitstablepier.com/decauville/

Carl, does nt it all come down to inside and outside frame prototypes.

An outside frame loco can be made easily gauge adjustable whereas an inside frame one cannot. Therefore to produce one loco for two markets they go for the lowest common denominator which is 2ft gauge, outside frame and adjustable to 45mm though not a correct prototype.

Still does n't explain why they pass up a huge 45mm only market though ?

No disrepect taken Carl. I guess I am happy using 32mm track to represent 750mm gauge. This works out to about 13mm to the ft which is a scale ratio of about 23 to 1. This compares with 16mm to the foot having a scale ratio of about 19 to 1.

This gives me, but not everyone, certain advantages. I think these are:-

- I have a consistent scale to work to though it does n't bother me plus or minus a bit (10% ?)
- I can get more railway in a smaller space
- I think that, for reasons I cannot rationalise, 32mm looks more narrow "gaugish" than 45mm in a smallish garden.
- I have to (and want to) build a lot of my stock from scratch.
- Because of the above and Peco track prices my chosen scale is less expensive to fund than 45mm.
- Loco prototypes were regularly regauged so it does not matter a deal to me if I use an overscale out of a box loco for a scratch build or conversion.
- My gauge/scale ratio is nearer to "G Scale", whatever that is, than it is to 16mm so off the shelf coaches and wagons can be used satisfactorily, if regauged.

Paradoxically the only downside for me using my scale/gauge combo is I cannot nip down to the model shop and buy a 45mm loco out of a box and in lazier moments that would be a very very nice option to have.

Anyway I have rambled too long but hope that I have indicated that I am not a 16mm type but more of a 13mm one. ('')


Best wishes,
David

Each one to their own with modelling.

If had the time - or rather another life I would model more closely to a scale that suits me say 1:20 then everything would be so much easier to remeasure.

All this 'millimetres to the foot' stuff really confuses me anyway.

What is a bit silly and has been covered before is the separate 'camps' that develop and all claiming that they operate broad churches.....oh not her again!

That is why I no longer belong to any association or club.

As for the UK steam locomotive manufacturers it is evident that they will not......
Take a commercial risk producing a real proper metre gauge prototype because they are afraid it won't sell and/or they can't be bothered to research and market it properly which goes with a degree of ignorance and arrogance IMO....... Or they just simply hate anything that smells faintly of garlic.

That'll upset a few guest viewers!

So what is Roundhouse's next loco going to be then......?

I agree Carl I cannot see Roundhouse producing a European Loco unless they see this Association Project Loco as a market research vehicle that reduces their risks by asking for some origination costs up front "a la Pierre avec Imagimonde".

Hopefully it could work out but very disappointing that the Association chose a twee little French loco instead of a bigger French loco, nice as it is.

Maybe ultimately this lack of interest in penetrating the European market is commercial and the proprietors judge that their business is best optimised for their objectives and less at risk with current volume levels. I hope, but am unsure, that it is not due in part to the little Englander syndrome as have always greatly admired and benefited from Roundhouse's high standards of customer service, despite the cheeseheads and gloss paint.

I reckon their next loco will be an American tank engine or a diesel switcher, though I dont know if the 2 foot gauge SR&RL had these. I suppose it might even be 45mm but it certainly wont be a Corpet Louvet.

David Grantham wrote:

I agree Carl I cannot see Roundhouse producing a European Loco unless they see this Association Project Loco as a market research vehicle that reduces their risks by asking for some origination costs up front "a la Pierre avec Imagimonde".

Hopefully it could work out but very disappointing that the Association chose a twee little French loco instead of a bigger French loco, nice as it is.

Maybe ultimately this lack of interest in penetrating the European market is commercial and the proprietors judge that their business is best optimised for their objectives and less at risk with current volume levels. I hope, but am unsure, that it is not due in part to the little Englander syndrome as have always greatly admired and benefited from Roundhouse's high standards of customer service, despite the cheeseheads and gloss paint.

I reckon their next loco will be an American tank engine or a diesel switcher, though I dont know if the 2 foot gauge SR&RL had these. I suppose it might even be 45mm but it certainly wont be a Corpet Louvet.

cheeseheads and gloss paint...Aarrgh! 3000 euros for a loco with slot head screws. Even Accucraft do better than that.

I'm obviously getting a crabby old git - (a teacher's natural progression) but even when I was in the UK in the late 1980's/early 1990's (I was a Francophile even then!) I was asking about continental prototypes and nobody was really interested. Somebody will read this and say but what about William and Billy. Which really sums up the models - Billy being a shorter version of William.
And then Europa...by Pearse.
All toy like and well overpriced.

That was when I discovered Regner and strangely enough at the time they had a model called Mona loosely based on a sort of Welshy thing for 16mm gauge which never sold btw.

So maybe we should be banging on a Bavarian door rather than a Yorkhire one!

Which brings me on nicely to say that if any one wants a straightforward RTR detailed model loco, Regner are selling the 'Emma' complete with 4 channel radio control- regulator, direction, whistle and uncoupling for about £1170......but that doesn't include slot head screws.


Regner Emma

In my opnion (oy vey)

...looking at the prototype and veiwing using RH bits, I would say the loco would make a better 7/8n2 model than 16mm.

The problem I have with SM32/16mm modelling is a lot of it is WAY overscale....or a Mamod/Jane/Janet. I have the second....

Regner's Catalogue is certainly a wonderland of bits and parts for the live steam enthusiast

Mike

David Grantham wrote:

To get the best price on some components it will be necessary to indicate interest and this should be done by emailing ""victory@16mm.org"".

David, this e-mail address bounces, I do have interest in the project, is there someone else to contact?

Thanks!

Confirm that. In case it is of use this is the bounce report:

Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

Recipient address: victory@16mm.org
Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
Diagnostic code: smtp;550 , Recipient unknown
Remote system: dns;mail.50.com (TCP|17.148.16.96|45570|205.214.87.132|25) (*****************************************************************)

Reporting-MTA: dns;asmtp021-bge351000 (tcp-daemon)

Original-recipient: rfc822;victory@16mm.org
Final-recipient: rfc822;victory@16mm.org
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0 (Remote SMTP server has rejected address)
Remote-MTA: dns;mail.50.com (TCP|17.148.16.96|45570|205.214.87.132|25)
(*****************************************************************)
Diagnostic-code: smtp;550 , Recipient unknown


Cheers

Mike

David, any more word on this?

Sorry, I have not heard anymore yet. Will let you know when I do.

Incidentally I did not have any problems yesterday sending to the email address.

Maybe the email problem is a function of a specific service provider not having compatible address tables, sometimes this happens. Best try again. as it worked OK for me yesterday from a Virgin address.


David

Spule 4 wrote:

David Grantham wrote:

To get the best price on some components it will be necessary to indicate interest and this should be done by emailing ""victory@16mm.org"".

David, this e-mail address bounces, I do have interest in the project, is there someone else to contact?

Thanks!

Keith Dwyer is the Director looking after the project. Not trying to rain on you parade but I'm sure that you'll have to be a 16mm Association member to subscribe to the project.

Best

Mike Ousby

Mr ACME


www.acmesteam.co.uk

Well, that is a bit of a downer, as it is a bit costly for anyone in the US to join without many of the benefits for those in the UK (insurance, meetings, etc.). Thanks for the news regardless!