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 Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3

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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyMon Jun 11, 2012 1:01 pm

Right, well me being the king of starting projects and not finishing them, and always managing to find some insperation to build something new or another model, i was moving some furniture around and found these pieces of metal which reminded me of the chasis that im using on my 5 inch gauge ptrol electric loco. So ive decided to make or attempt to make another live diesel model. This time i would like to use a 4 stroke engine, when i can afford one, but i thought ide get the chassis underway, especially as i had a nice bogie lying around that David very kindly gave to me, and it seems to good to be doing nothing. So here we go...

Now the question i want to ask i suppose, is what is the maximum length i can go to on a dual bogie 45mm G scale diesel model. Could anyone give me some examples of some lengthy locos and their dimensions, as the materiel i have is rather to long, but im not going to cut it down until i know what the max length to look reasonable and to get round corners is.

This is what i have:





Last edited by antonr91 on Mon Jun 11, 2012 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyMon Jun 11, 2012 1:05 pm

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Img_0823[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Img_0824[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Img_0825[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Img_0826[/img]
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Paulus

Paulus

Location : The Netherlands

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyMon Jun 11, 2012 3:27 pm

Looks a bit wide? Or will it be more narrow?
About the lenght, I asume that has all to do with the minimum curves you want to use. Try it on LGB smallest curvers R1 and see how it looks. And there is a difference: a long engine could perhaps handle small curves well, but does it look right (when you see the track in between the to bogies sticking out at the side of the engine when it runs trough a curve).

Keep us posted!

_________________
Paul pirat
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyMon Jun 11, 2012 3:35 pm

You are right Paul, it is wide, but i intedn to narrow it as well. Those holes drilled in the front and back angle pieces, were there already, as these were shelf supports on some furniture unit.

You are very right, i had never thought about that, what it would look like going round a curve....well what was the curve radius when we went to france on Carls track? as im sure if i make it to those standards, then it should work on all Smile
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyMon Jun 11, 2012 4:02 pm

You could always tell us what length this chassis is to save us guessing!!!..... scratch

The radii on the portable layout are 90cm and 75cm. The loading gauge is 150mm (track centres).

It's all about overhang. As Paul suggested you need to reflect on what it will be like negotiating curves of a particular radius and then positioning the bogie(s) to keep the overhang within the loading gauge.
On the portable layout that means that any part of the loco (including body) mustn't protrude more than 75 mm from the track centre. This applies to the middle as well the ends.
You could just have one bogie and a fixed single axle like many De Dion railcars.

I would make a big compass with a long piece of batten and a nail and pen and draw out an arc of the two radii/loading gauge and play about from thereon.
Mmmm.......although that table looks about 75cm radius..... Twisted Evil



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dtsteam

dtsteam

Location : Preston, England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyMon Jun 11, 2012 10:29 pm

Well, my ridiculously long Aristo RDC is 75cm long, needs R3 (4' radius) curves, and swings out beyond any known loading gauge affraid

So, less than 75cm then....
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptySun Oct 28, 2012 7:14 pm

Okay, now after my second sunday at VAMES, using there rather nice G scale railway, and after many problems with Shunt, ive has the boost i need to continue with my live diesel number 3.

Now guys, i will get back to you on the length of the loco, as i am not at home at the moment, and cannot measure it.

Now the major things that need to be sourced and purchased:

Nitro 4 stroke engine - I would like to get a smallish one, ideally second hand. Would like to know what engines Barry Reeves used in his machines.

MFA 850 - Proven and it works

Another unpowered bogie - There is no real need to have two powered bogies as one is enough pulling power for what i want to do. also to expensive.

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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 3:54 pm

Oky, well after flying got cancelled due to weather, i decided to spend the day in the shed and try and get somewhere with diesel number 3.

Ive cut the end pieces to the right length (same width as on Shunt, 10cm) and after reading what Paul wrote about his 75cm loco, and watching some videos of Bob Popes locos, which seem to be pretty long as well, i decided to keep the length too Smile, which for your info is 63 1/2 cm.

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dsc02310[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dsc02311[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dsc02312[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dsc02313[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dsc02314[/img]


Now as some of you will most probably guess, it has only on bogie at the moment (kindly donated by David) and the other set of wheels is actually a Mamod flatbed wagon, that i bought when i first caught the live diesel disease Laughing.

Now i was about to completely canabolise the wagon, and then i thought hold on, this is pretty nice and a waste to chop up and ruin. So what i though about is MAKING A DEAL.

I need a 4 wheel un-powered 45mm bogie for this loco, something similar to the essel one i already have on this loco.

Is there anyone on this forum who would SWAP any unwanted bogie, for this wagon, i know its not in the best of conditions, but it runs nicely and freely and would make a good piece of stock for anyone who uses 32mm/45mm steam.

If no one wants to do this, then i think i will attempt to adapt it into this loco.

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dsc02315[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dsc02316[/img]


Ive also found out that Barry Reaves used the OS 26 size $ stroke engine with a oldham coupling. They dont make this size anymore and the smallest they seem to do is the 30 size which retails at around £160. NO BLOODY WAY!!

I have found a nice 26 size os on ebay and its at £56 right now but the problem is students funds wont allow me to buy this at the moment, so engine shall have to wait.


>David, what size is your 4 stroke and make???
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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 5:24 pm

OS FS30

I think that to start this with an 850 motor will require a gear ratio of at least 3 to 1 and maybe more.

If you find this to be not true please let me know as I must be doing something very wrong.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyMon Oct 29, 2012 8:03 pm

Thanks David.

Did you buy your second hand or was it new?

Sorry to start this on my thread, and im sorry if youve already explained it a millions times, but what is the actual problem with your loco and engine?

I will read up on your dead or alive post to get myself in the loop again.

The minute i know, i shall let you know the result, i believe it should work on a direct 1-1 coupling as the sheer power of the 850 is pretty good, especially when i use a 12v led acid as the started battery.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptySat Dec 01, 2012 4:01 pm

Well having contacted Essel Engineering, and asking whether they could make me a unpowered bogie to match the powered on i already had, and getting a lovely yes from them,, it arrived a yesterday, and although i had promised myself i wasnt going to do anything with this loco, until i bought the 4 stroke, i just couldnt resist, especially as i have now sold all the tinplate track and have purchased lgb and peko g scale track.

So i took the powerplant off of shunt, and tried it on the chassis, and it looked good, and i am finding the space that i now have with this 25 inch loco very good, and im determined to make this loco work well and look a little more professional and not such a 'slap together and go as quick as possible job'.

I had a little run on the new railway with it, and this loco is fully RC as well.

David, i now understand what you meant about the bogie wheels locking up, as they seemed to lock up a little on corners.

Now im focusing on the exhaust on this one, and i would like to make it out of copper piping, something a little like this perhaps: Jerry Hydes Machine. I like the way the exhaust is done, and it doesnt look over complicated to recreate.

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 3bdd10[/img]

The main problem for me is i am unsure how to attach this kind of exhaust to the engine.
I know ive posted this photo before and im sure youve all seen it, but the manifold on this would be perfect for me to then solder the copper exhaust to:

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 2dscn110[/img]

Now these are just a few photos of me messing around today and what the loco looks like with the 2 stroke setup at the moment. NOTE: nothing is fastened down or in the correct place, this was merely so i could try it out on the new railway.

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dscn1310[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dscn1311[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dscn1312[/img]

[img]Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 Dscn1313[/img]

Now i need the os 4 stroke, another MFA 850 and a large Traxxis 1/8 scale fuel tank and then i should be up and running again.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyThu Jan 24, 2013 7:30 am

Troy: How many teeth does your pinion gear have?

Carl: same question re. your red loco & your LD3? (twin bogie white and blue)...
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: hold   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyThu Jan 24, 2013 8:12 am

Why? What are you trying achieve?

If you mean the pinion gear on the BLDC motor; 14 and 16 respectively.
The clutch bell has 14 teeth on both I believe from memory.

Small gear on engine/clutch and big gear on motor will make it easier for the engine to turn the motor. The production of electricity will thus be smoother and more controllable.
Disadvantage is that engine will rev more.

Big gear on engine/clutch smaller gear on BLDC will make it harder for enigine to turn the motor. The production of electricity will be jerky and less controllable especially at low volts.
Advantage is that engine will rev less to produce electricity. Depending on gear ratio even at idle speed you could produce sufficient electricity but then this would need a speed controller to make it usable and controllable.

The way to go is to get some different gears (most clutch bells seem to be module 1 pitch) and play around on a test bed for what suits you.
The BLDC motors we are using have 5mm shafts and so too does the Kyosho engine.

I've moved these 2 posts to 'Anton's live diesel locomotive no.3'. from 'Troy's live diesel'

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyWed Feb 13, 2013 3:10 pm

Anton, saw your latest videos on a number of websites with your new BLDC loco running at Aylesbury and it looked very impressive.

Please take the time to write up any ideas or experiences you have had with this as I am sure it will be of help and interest to others on this forum.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptySat Feb 16, 2013 3:04 pm

videos of the engine ive got my hands on:



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Paulus

Paulus

Location : The Netherlands

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptySat Feb 16, 2013 6:59 pm

Nice!
You could use that prop and turn it into a propeller powered engine, like the Schienenzeppelin See: http://www.dieselpunks.org/profiles/blogs/rail-zeppelin


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Paul pirat
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3   Anton's Live Diesel Locomitve Number 3 EmptyTue Mar 26, 2013 11:49 am

Right, well after carefully watching Mr David Granthams build process of his 4 stroke machine, and reading what worked for him and what didnt, and after being in close contact with a few different people, including the now owner of Pilgrim Locomotive Works, Roy Wood, and some extremely useful input from Mr Ralph Brades, who I thought had disappeared, when his project, i know we were so eagerly awaiting to see running, I now can say that i have a working 4 stroke locomotive. I had contemplated going down Davids route, using pulleys, but then saw the difficulty with getting it right, and gearing just wouldnt have worked for me.

The Main and ONLY hurdle for me with this locomotive, was starting a 4 stroke engine. I know that OS made a one or two version of the 4 stroke with a factory installed pull start, which they used in RC cars. Now these were and still are extremely rare and difficult to get hold of, and as you probably know, pulling over a flooded 2 stroke engine when fixed to a locomotive, is hard enough, and usually you end up flinging the locomotive into the air and doing some damage. So imagine what a 4 stroke would be like, with a pretty hardcore compression ratio.

I have a fairl old OS FS 40 model plane engine, (videos of it running with a prop above). So firstly, i did try to pursue, switching it over to pull start, and this is what i found:

http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread.php?110337-OS-FS-40-conversion-to-pull-start

This seemed like a long shot, and frankly, i did not have the time or patience for this.

I then though of somehow attaching an electric starter to it, like the cars and helicopter use, and form of drill with a connecting rod, and i stumbled accross this:

http://www.nitrotek.co.uk/go-side-electric-starter.html

But again, i honestly did not know how and where to fit this....

I originally wanted to stick with me MFA 850 torpedo motor, and the honest reason for this was: it was there and just laying around, and it had cost me £30.

But as i has seen, from what David has tried, it just didnt have the power.

I finally had an idea, and then it seemed stupid why i hadnt thought of this before.

Im sorry but i am going to keep you guys in suspense for a little bit, as instead of telling you, ide rather just show you a video of it being started and it running, so hopefully this weekend i shall upload.

Anton
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