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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptySat Sep 08, 2012 9:16 pm

For a while now I wanted to repalce the red wooden body on one of the diesels and had ideas to built a diesel tram replicating the steam tram on the Chiemseebahn.
They have both steam and diesel with similar bodies.

Chiemsee diesel

So a start was made

Diesel tram Diesel10

Fed up with the escalating price of brass I have used zinc.

Diesel tram Diesel11

Brass rivets (cut down tacks from DIY store) soldered onto 0.65 mm zinc sheet used for roofing and gutters.

A 2 metre x 1 metre sheet of 0.65 mm zinc costs about 60 euros. If you try to buy that quantity in brass it would cost at least 4 times that.

Zinc solders just as easily as brass or nickel silver but is a lot softer and bends and kinks very easily.
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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 10:27 am

Very nice start Carl.

Can you explain how you managed to cut such a fine frame around the cab window ?

With my existing lack of technique I would find it very hard to do this.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 10:40 am

I just cut out the rough shape with a jigsaw and filed it down after.
The zinc is easy to work with but you need a light hand.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has modelled in zinc, not the diecast stuff but sheet like this. I couldn't find much on the internet.

The idea was given to me by a French modeller near Pont Audemer who came to Railexpo once.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 6:58 pm

The basic stucture complete.

Diesel tram Diesel12

Roof next I think.
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tram47

tram47

Location : Aquitaine (France)

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptySun Sep 09, 2012 7:00 pm

Diesel tram 317793 Very Happy
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Paulus

Paulus

Location : The Netherlands

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyMon Sep 10, 2012 10:52 am

Interesting use of zinc. Never seen somebody modelling in it but it looks good.
Also thanks for the tip on using brass tacks! Keep the pictures comming!

_________________
Paul pirat
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyTue Sep 11, 2012 5:30 pm

...and now with a roof soldered to the body.

Diesel tram Diesel13

I had to be very careful with the heat.
The ribs are from nickel silver and the edges are from brass.
All 3 metals expand slightly differently and the zinc seems to expand greater at lower temperatures.

You have to listen very carefully to hear the metal expanding and take the heat off before it's too late. There is some slight warping with the top of the front panels but it doesn't show too much.

Also too much heat and the zinc goes black!
I'm waiting for some erudite person to post on the dangers of zinc oxide inhalation......

For forming the roof it is a pleasure with zinc. Just gentle rolling with a rolling pin on a soft surface and light bending. It is much easier than brass and not so kinky as aluminium......
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GWhizz

GWhizz

Location : Charente, France

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyWed Sep 12, 2012 11:11 am

Carl Hibbs wrote:
I'm waiting for some erudite person to post on the dangers of zinc oxide inhalation.......

I don't know about that, but I believe zinc deficiency can cause problems in old age !!!!!

Perhaps this is an alternative to taking it in your diet !!!!

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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KleineDicke

KleineDicke

Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyWed Sep 12, 2012 1:27 pm

Don't know about inhalation, but zinc oxide is a pretty good sunscreen; it's the white stuff you see on the lifeguard's nose. It also is used to treat diaper rash.
Diesel tram BBar5

How stiff is the zinc? It looks a bit flimsy. Your worksmanship, as usual, looks great.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)


Last edited by KleineDicke on Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyWed Sep 12, 2012 1:36 pm

GWhizz wrote:


I believe zinc deficiency can cause problems in old age !!!!!

Perhaps this is an alternative to taking it in your diet !!!!

Maybe it reverses the ageing process. Well strangeley enough with all the dust I have been ingesting I do feel quite energetic and well sort of....galvanised....'Razz'


Thanks Bill, the zinc is no more flimsy than brass for the same thickness but it is softer and less springy.

I've now tried it on the chassis of the diesel and it looks okay. Some pics later.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyWed Sep 12, 2012 7:33 pm

Do people really go into shops in the U.S and say "Can I have some butt paste please?"..."Regular or extra large?" Embarassed

Just one pic to show a frst fitting to the diesel chassis.

Diesel tram Diesel14

I need to disguise some of innards a bit.

Buffer beam and some detailling to do next
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KleineDicke

KleineDicke

Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyWed Sep 12, 2012 8:57 pm

Carl Hibbs wrote:
Do people really go into shops in the U.S and say "Can I have some butt paste please?"..."Regular or extra large?"

I never have myself, but apparently some folks do. Boudreaux's Butt Paste has been around for a while, but when my daughters were in diapers, I hadn't heard of it. It was a regional product (from Louisiana) which has expanded its market. It comes in various sizes and forms ( http://buttpaste.com/ ) and is available at Wal-Mart and over the internet (Amazon, drugstore.com, etc.). It even has its own page on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boudreaux's_Butt_Paste and of course they're on facebook as well.

Boudreaux's also sponsored a NASCAR racing car: http://www.nascar.com/2005/news/business/04/06/kcrosby_paste/

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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Sparkeswood

Sparkeswood

Location : Kent,England

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyThu Sep 13, 2012 5:16 pm

I managed to salvage several rolls of very strong black mesh recently (used as flyscreen on windows)
It might be useful for hiding various innards,but also looks very useful for general grills ect.
I'll bring a couple of rolls over with me.I'll stick a picture up if I get a chance.
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KleineDicke

KleineDicke

Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyThu Sep 13, 2012 7:59 pm

Maybe you could smear some Butt Paste over everything.Razz

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 7:08 pm

Sparkeswood wrote:
I managed to salvage several rolls of very strong black mesh recently (used as flyscreen on windows)
It might be useful for hiding various innards,but also looks very useful for general grills ect.
I'll bring a couple of rolls over with me.I'll stick a picture up if I get a chance.

That could be very useful, thanks Troy.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptySun Sep 16, 2012 7:17 pm

Some more progress.

Nickel silver curved post brackets and 2 days spent making buffer beam with sprung buffers.

Diesel tram Diesel15

Diesel tram Diesel16

The buffer heads are 10 (euro) cents coins. (btw you can solder 5 pence pieces too....)

Diesel tram Diesel17

Diesel tram Diesel18

It needs some hand rails and lamps next.

I am debating whether to paint it or not, or leave it in its raw metal state until after Railexpo.
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GWhizz

GWhizz

Location : Charente, France

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyMon Sep 17, 2012 7:54 am

Hi Carl, I think it would be an education to us all if you could leave it unpainted til after the EXpo! Will you be taking it to Chatellerault?

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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Paulus

Paulus

Location : The Netherlands

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyMon Sep 17, 2012 8:24 am

Again a wonderfull piece of work Carl! Leave it this way for the show also to inspire others to try zinc plates as material.
Now just a movie to see it run please?

_________________
Paul pirat
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KleineDicke

KleineDicke

Location : Deep in the Heart of Texas (Houston)

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyMon Sep 17, 2012 1:14 pm

It would be a shame to cover up such fine modeling with paint. Leave it au naturel- at least until after RailExpo.

_________________
Bill Wray

"It is one of the happiest characteristics
of this glorious country that official utterances are invariably
regarded as unanswerable."
-Sir Joseph Porter, First Lord of the Admiralty (HMS Pinafore)
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mike

mike

Location : sunny whitworth, near bacup, rossendale

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyMon Sep 17, 2012 1:30 pm

i really like that carl Very Happy
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http://www.lazygrangebay.co.uk/
Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyMon Sep 17, 2012 3:22 pm

Okay so that's unpainted then. I hope it will encourage others to realise that zinc has a lot of possibilities as modelling material.

I wasn't intending to but I could bring it to Chatellerault as a 'static' model as the rules say no working IC or live steam locos.

The first run will be at St Aubin. I bet it is a lot noisier with a resonating metal body.... might just shake all the soldered rivets out. affraid
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Clockwork Annie

Clockwork Annie

Location : New Zealand

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyWed Sep 19, 2012 12:50 am

That's a beautiful tram Carl. I haven't ever made models with zinc, but I have made models using galvanised steel sheet. Very cheap to buy and it takes solder well.

Diesel tram 0-AdamsB4DockTank

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Diesel tram Moving10
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyWed Sep 19, 2012 5:08 pm

I haven't yet tried (or even thought about) galvanised steel. It is more expensive than zinc here but it may well be a good solution where strength is required. Thanks for the idea.
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Sparkeswood

Sparkeswood

Location : Kent,England

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyWed Sep 19, 2012 7:07 pm

Although I'm very aware of being wrong,you do have to be careful of heating galvanized items.I'm not taking the mickey here.Apparently it gives off some nasty stuff.
But I'm no expert,I was just told to avoid the vapour on stove building.
This was a public information exchange on behalf of ..........oh..I can't do smiley's....:-(
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Clockwork Annie

Clockwork Annie

Location : New Zealand

Diesel tram Empty
PostSubject: Re: Diesel tram   Diesel tram EmptyWed Sep 19, 2012 10:22 pm

Good ventilation is essential when working with galvanised sheet, but at soldering temperatures it's quite safe.

I purchased the 4x8ft sheet of galvanised steel sheet I use for models from a small sheet metal manufacturing business. It had been dropped on one corner so it didn't fit their production machinery anymore which meant that I got it pretty cheap.

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