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For the average enthusiast of trains in garden scale.
 
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 Brian's Live Diesel

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Carl Hibbs
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Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brian's Live Diesel   Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 EmptyTue Mar 26, 2013 9:33 pm

Even if it's half ready we'll make room somehow!

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GWhizz

GWhizz

Location : Charente, France

Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brian's Live Diesel   Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu May 16, 2013 3:34 pm

I think my frustrations with "engrenages" gears have been well aired on other threads so I decided to try a different route...

I know that Carl, Troy and others have experimented with "direct" drives from i/c engine to brushless motor with varying degrees of success, reverting to the use of clutches and pinions.

Being of a somewhat obstinate nature, I decided to have a go myself, exploring three options...

Rubber coupling
Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Rubber10
Proving to be far too long to fit comfortably in a Baguley chassis, but OK for a bigger model. Usual problems of grip with grub screws

Universal joint
Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Uj10
Potentially OK, but still far too long and unstable

It was then that I noticed a series of mounting holes on the rotating body of the brushless motor...
Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Motor_10

Could then the motor be directly mounted to the Kyosho flywheel becoming simply an extension of the motor itself and thus avoiding the problems of torque and slippage with grub screws on 5mm and 4mm shafts.

1. Remove two spigots from one Kyosho flywheel
2. Drill out and mount this Kyosho flywheel direct to the brushless motor (Use "nutlock" throughout)
3. Then remove M5 extension from engine, shorten thread and remount flywheel with a an M5 nut
4. Press fit the two units together in a vice, and voila a single unit..
Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Direct10

Here compared with an UJ


I think the natural extension of this approach for those that have lathes and engineering skills is to incorporate some kind of cooloing fan into the "double" flywheel design????Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Compar10

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Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brian's Live Diesel   Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu May 16, 2013 4:21 pm

Very enterprising and I'm always keen on other people's developments.

Obviously you haven't tried these in action yet.

I'll be surprised if the red UJ lasts more than a few seconds. Be careful of the flying pieces.

The other rubber coupling looks interesting. How is it constructed/connected to the 2 metal pieces?

The idea of mounting the alternator directly on the flywheel could be a real step forward. Laughing
A long time ago I looked at a Canadian aircraft engine with a similar arrangement and was then drawn to a motorcycle dynamo, many of which are mounted around the crankshaft.
See this pic for an example:
M/C dynamo.
I never pursued the idea though.

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GWhizz

GWhizz

Location : Charente, France

Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brian's Live Diesel   Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu May 16, 2013 5:15 pm

The rubber coupling is from MODEL BOAT BITS

Not sure of the bonding but it seems very tough, the shafts could also be shortened. Do you think a GX12 can run without a flywheel if it's connected via a shaft to the alternator?

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Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brian's Live Diesel   Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu May 16, 2013 5:19 pm

It will run but it doesn't start very well.
I tried this with Van's diesel, no clutch, directly connected gears and no flywheel.
It seems to need the flywheel when hand starting.
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dtsteam

dtsteam

Location : Preston, England

Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brian's Live Diesel   Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu May 16, 2013 5:48 pm

I like the direct coupling, but I'm not sure I could get the second flywheel to run true. It will be interesting to see how smooth it is when you fire it up. I do have a lathe so I'm tempted to have a go at a solid coupling.
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brian's Live Diesel   Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 EmptyFri May 17, 2013 5:00 pm

Taking this a stage further and going back to the radial motorcycle dynamo idea why not make the Kyosho engine crankshaft spigot the rotor of the BLDC motor?

First seperate the rotor casing and the stator by removing the e clip at the stator bearing.
You would need to knock out the rotor shaft from the BLDC motor casing which for the 910 and 790 KV models from RC timer is 5mm - the same dia as the Kyosho crankshaft spigot. Very Happy
This is only located by grub srews to the casing boss but still tight fit.
Then fix the the casing with the permanent magnets to the crankshaft spigot with the open end facing away from the engine block.
The crankshaft spigot will then run in the bearing of the stator when refitted. There is even a slot in the end crankshaft spigot for an e clip to fit over the stator bearing.
Then you just need to stop the stator from turning with a simple bar or anti rotational attachment. It may even stay still by attaching the 3 power cables.

If you have followed all that then I'm impressed, however the downfall is that the Kyosho crankshaft spigot is too short... blx! Sad

But.... there are some very flat large diameter outrunner motors available that are used for 'multicopters' and 'gimbals'.

I am also looking at a PC hard drive motor which is very flat...... Idea

If any anyone is a good machinist (not me) you could make up a longer crankshaft spigot.
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GWhizz

GWhizz

Location : Charente, France

Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Brian's Live Diesel   Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 EmptyFri May 17, 2013 5:22 pm

Well the simple double flywheel solution it seems to have worked...

Brian's Live Diesel - Page 3 Img_1910

The following video is a compilation of three or four trial runs this afternoon and so far so good!