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 Hymek class 35 live diesel

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ralphbrades




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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 21, 2011 7:13 am

Ok Anton.

Let us take a look at this diagram.

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The output from your dynamo feeds into the electrolytic capacitor and then into the Feed leg of the Voltage Regulator. The Ground leg of the VR is held at a higher potential ( 24V) to "true" Ground by using a Zener diode. The Feed leg to Ground leg voltage is still within its limits -but the voltage of the Output leg to "true" ground is what we are looking for.

Sounds confusing doesn't it!

The diagram you have been given is a good one and as simple as can be. I do know of some VR that take 60V input such as L200CV which you can rig to give any voltage from 1.2V to 36V @ 2A but they are a little pricey at around £4 each!()

Yes, ideally you should use as high a voltage as possible, (see above), to power your motors.

Sorry I cannot help you with your ESC -I don't know the manufacturer...

regards

ralph

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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyTue Jun 21, 2011 12:06 pm

Why not do something simpler... Very Happy

Put the seemingly errant motor David gave you to one side as a future science project (12v in = 65v out Exclamation ) and get a more suitable motor that's fits your needs like another 850 (£26 on e bay, new). or even smaller.

New Johnson 6-12v motors, 2.3 amps, 20,000 rpm, £3.50 each again on e bay.

Or...a cheap cordless drill and you get a motor, gears, speed controller, batteries and a charger.


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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu Jun 23, 2011 2:14 pm

Right thank you for the help guys, I am working on the simple diagram that the friends gave me and ill see where that takes me. Ralph, thank you very much for telling me about the L200CV, I went out yesterday an purchased one from Maplins.

Carl, i do actually have a cordless drill that ive just taken apart for something else and it has the battery, the gearing, and the motor all in perfect order. I could go down David's route and have a battery on board as well, as the 9.6v Bosch battery is very good and a shame to waste.

Carl about compression with my exhaust, i have one of the fuel nipples things and i could drill a hole in the exhaust somewhere and insert it. for best compression where abouts on my exhaust would you think it could go?

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And a few pictures of the more carefully painted loco, now ive taken advice to slow down and take my time. Very Happy Still nowhere near perfect or anything like some of the other loco bodies that i have seen throughout this forum, but it will do for me.

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ralphbrades



Location : Derby UK

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu Jun 23, 2011 5:29 pm

Anton -don't worry how good or bad your bodywork looks!!!

When I take any of my locos to a G3S meeting I seem to spend most of my time taking the bodywork OFF to show people what it looks like inside. People will not be interested in the number of rivets on your bogies -they will be more interested in what the gubbins look like.

I don't know what scale you are working to but have a look at the bits and bobs that you can "encrust" your loco with. I get quite a lot of useful stuff from the local haberdashers and paper card making shops. Most of the gold "pinstriping" on my 16mm scale locos comes from stick on edging for wedding cards. Singer sewing machine parts are good source of things too.

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The boiler is made from a spare (free) dishwasher attachment, the steam and sand domes are made from Kinder Surprise Eggs. The smoke stack is from the remains of glue cartridge. The plumbing is made from those allen keys that seem to come with all IKEA furniture...

If you really want stuff then I would suggest you look at Cambrian Models, Brandbright, Tenmille, and of course Garden Railway Specialists -(who have just put up their prices)...

regards

ralph



Picture resized to fit screen width, Admin.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu Jun 23, 2011 5:33 pm

Ralph, that is brilliant, i love it, really creative thinking. I definitely need to cut some grills out of the sides of the loco and fill with wire mesh.

Well thats what i was thinking, which is why i want to make the presentation of the inside as interesting as possible.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 07, 2011 10:04 am

Carl, I have a few questions for you...

1) If i was to drill a hole in the exhaust, and add the nipple that would usually be on an exhaust and add the pipe that goes from the fuel tank to the exhaust, would this then work for compression?

2) Does it matter where the hole is drilled for the nipple (close to the manifold or further away)?

And this question is completely separate.

I have just purchased a new rc 3D plane and it says it requires a eflite brushless outrunner 480 motor. Rated at 1020KV

I have found cheaper motors on ebay from japan that are rated the same kv and have similar spec.

Do you think performance would be different and life span be shortened with a jap motor?
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Carl Hibbs
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Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyThu Jul 07, 2011 4:32 pm

I don't think it matters where the output pipe nipple goes for pressurising the fuel. I've put it in several positions, facing up and down and it seems to give the same results.

Just make sure that fuel can't ran back from the tank to the engine via this pipe.

The BLDC motors I have used seem very good quality from Hong Kong.

I can't speak personally for the motors you are using but compare the price and try the Jap. ones out.

E flite are a reputable American product.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyMon Jul 18, 2011 10:19 pm

Finally, after a while of messing around and going in circles, the warship finally ran today under radio control power and using the 700 motor that produces 50v Shocked

I have had much help from a guy Called Bob, who took time to come over and take me through all the steps needed electronically, to make this machine work.

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This is a basic diagram of how we have used the 5 terminal regulator rated at 60v, 2 resisters which only allow 13v to then get passed to the ESC and receiver which intern is fed to both bogies (parallel) so that each bogies can get the final output voltage which is around 12 volts each.

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This is what the regulator set up looks like:

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After 3 hours of going through all the steps to make sure the ESC and receiver would not get fried, we attempted to fired it up and and see if it would work with the high voltage the generator putts out...as we had only tried the set up with 18 volts worth of batteries going through it and needed to see if the unit worked under high voltage, but embarrassingly the glow starter ran out of battery and that was the end of that, as even charging it for 20 mins in the hope for one quick glow n start did not work.

Once Bob had gone and and the glow starter had a bit of charge in it, I attempted to start the machine using the diagram that Bob had left me with with me of how to wire it in. I followed the steps and fired it up. It worked for a total of about a minute before the engine started to cut out. Now this is going to be the part where i lose everyone as im going to try and explain what happened...

It seems that after about a minute of running, resistance started to kick in on the generator, and the engine cut out. I attempted to start it many times and it would start, then immediately cut out again, as if i had no compression pipe attached from the exhaust to the fuel tank (but it did). I then found that if a disconnected the leads from the genirator, so there was not load on it, the engine would start again and run fine, but if i connected all the electronics to it while it was running, it would spark slightly and cut the engine again scratch

Now this has happened before on the Shunter when i had actually blown the ESC and when having the damaged electronics attached to the generator, serious resistance occurd and the engine would also cut out. I presume this was because the circuitry inside the ESC had blown up and perhaps was sending current back to the motor, and therefore as this is directly attached to the nitro engine, it cut it out as the motor would try to turn (thats just a guess).

Now in fear that i had blown another ESC even though all the effort above was to prevent that from happening, i took both the ESC and reciever off to check if it still worked with just a 9v battery attached and it was fine, so i know i havnt blown anything and therefore cannot work out why, when i attach the unit to the genirator, it cuts the nitro engine out scratch ...

Now if anyone can understand the waffle i have just said, then could you please help me out as i am stuck as to why this wont work, as primarily, it did work and nothing has blown up, so i cant see a reason why it shouldnt still work...
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Carl Hibbs
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Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyTue Jul 19, 2011 5:48 am

antonr91 wrote:


It seems that after about a minute of running, resistance started to kick in on the generator, and the engine cut out.

......

Now if anyone can understand the waffle i have just said, then could you please help me out as I am stuck as to why this wont work, as primarily, it did work and nothing has blown up, so I cant see a reason why it shouldnt still work...

You've answered your own question Anton.


The electrics you have added must be drawing a lot of current and thus putting a load on the motor (generator) which makes it turn slower and consequently needs greater power to turn it.

The nitro engine doesn't have have sufficient power to be able to do that so it cuts out.

It is only a .12 that you are using.

With no electrical load there is no (electrical) resistance so the motor turns more easily and needs less engine power turn it.


I sounds to me that this 700 motor is really a 666 motor. Twisted Evil


This is a problem we (live diesel heads) are facing with a DC motor starter/generator.
The motor needs to be sufficiently powerful to turnover the nitro engine to start it yet supple enough to be turned easily by the nitro engine in all conditions.

You could add some gearing as I think David has done. Bigger gear on the motor, smaller gear on the engine. They are easily sourced on e bay for RC cars.

You could maybe increase the idle speed of the nitro engine and perhaps lean the mixture a tad might help.


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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyTue Jul 19, 2011 9:39 am

Right well I see whats happened then.

Ive tried that motor again upto full throttle and still the resisrance just cut it out.

I didnt fully understand what you said Carl. Is it the bigger the motor, the more resistance. the smaller the motor, the more resistance, or the high voltage the motor puts out, the more resistance?

Do you find there is alot of resistance with the 850 torpedo when you use it and when its connected with an ESC, as when im using mine on the shunter, i do not notice any, (as mine shunter doesnt have an ESC, it has a variable regulator) but then again, Ive only noticed resistance when an rc ESC is being used and not when i have the generator directly attached to another motor. so it seems the ESC creates resistance?

Ive given up using the 700 or 666 motor as its really starting to annoy me. I dont know whether to get another 850 or something else, but it needs to be able to power two 12v motors and not produce any more then 15v...

About the gearing system, to be hoist ide like to try and not have that if possible as its another fidly thing to go wrong at the moment.

Im really starting to learn about resistance now, and its usefull to know that "what giveth with one hand get taketh away with the other" meaning ive tried to limit voltage and therefore created serious resistance, enough to stop my nitro engine from turning over!

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Carl Hibbs
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Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyTue Jul 19, 2011 10:32 am

antonr91 wrote:

I didnt fully understand what you said Carl. Is it the bigger the motor, the more resistance. the smaller the motor, the more resistance, or the high voltage the motor puts out, the more resistance?


No, not at all

Current, voltage and resistance have a relationship called Ohm's law.


The more current (greater load) you demand from the motor (generator) the slower it will go and will stall eventually. Every load has resistance, physical or electrical.

I would get a proven motor like the 850 or even try a slightly smaller one from the same makers. You may be able to start a .12 with a smaller motor than an 850, I haven't tried yet.
Check the specifications first.


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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

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PostSubject: Re: Hymek class 35 live diesel   Hymek class 35 live diesel - Page 3 EmptyTue Jul 19, 2011 12:17 pm


The problem looks like you have a straight short across the RED and BLACK wires from the resistors into the (controller ???)


Edit : from the drawing.

Can't work out why you need two wires out , if you do need them maybe you should stick some diodes in to prevent the short.


Sorry - red herring, I have looked at the datasheets for something similar and it looks virtually the same as you have done

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
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