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 Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale

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David Grantham



Location : Midlands, England

Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale Empty
PostSubject: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyWed Jan 26, 2011 5:19 pm

Not everyday that these things come up for sale.
The text below was posted today on the 16mm forum and was written by the proprietor of Pilgrim Locomotive Works.
I cannot add anything to the note below as I have no experience of the company or its products and I am not connected to them in anyway and I just reproduce this information for CGT members.

"""
Hi there
I doubt I will ever get time to finish my Pilgrim locomotive.
If anyone is interested, I am looking for £395 and £20 post and packing.

If you want to buy the rights to the Pilgrim company as well, the
total price would be £695 + £20 post and packing
This would make an ideal business for a retired person.
I paid over £1000 for the company but have not
had enough time to do anything with it.
I think Barry Reeves sold at least 10 locomotives in a couple of years or so.

I did get several people interested at £999 for a finished 0-4-0 and a
couple for a big bogie diesel at £1995.

What you get
You get a 32 mm gauge 4 wheeled chassis with an OS 4 stroke engine
and motor generator installed,
a Maxon motor and custom made gearbox.

The engine has been run for about 5 minutes and worked fine.
The motor and gearbox are new.

It will need wiring up, a magazine with circuit diagram is included,
Servo for engine is fitted and working.
Mach 5 controller included but not 100% sure this is working.
You will need a radio control and receiver and a servo smother.

You will also need an exhaust system.
A Cheddar models steam and oil separator would probably be ideal.

All you need to do then is make a body for it.
Contact me off list.
regards David
"""
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyWed Jan 26, 2011 9:01 pm

Amazing.....

....and a shame

The end really of Pilgrim locos. I remember when Barry Reeves sold this.

There are a few pics dotted about on the web but these locos are quite primitive (like mine really) in comparison to Wada, Jerry Hyde or Bob Pope.

It would however make a good project and I think it's a good price.
The OS 4 stroke is worth half of the cost alone.

If anyone else is thinking of live diesel I would get in touch with him.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySat Jan 29, 2011 12:06 pm

I have previously looked up Pilgrim locomotive works and could not find a thing. I dont know whether its because it was stopped a while ago or what as i was told they were the people to talk about live diesel to.

I think it would be really fun to have a small business like this but im sure it is time consuming and I know that making fibre glass shells can become very difficult at the best of times, which is a huge part of the locomotive. I would love to see a picture of that loco he is offering if any one can find one as it is actually very reasonable in price.
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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=599011689
Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySat Jan 29, 2011 12:31 pm

Try this link for a picture.

Pilgrim Diesel
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

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PostSubject: Pilgrim Loco Works, from the original owner.   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyWed Jun 15, 2011 9:34 pm

Hi All

I am Barry Reeves who sold the business to Dave Clark.

I sold I think 7 or eight Pilgrim Tradesman locos, the 2 axle models and built 2 Bo-Bo Pilgrim Merchant locos.

Regarding noise, the exhaust system, which I explained to Dave C but he has it seems lost my notes, makes normal conversation normal at only 1 metre away from the loco when it is working on full pulling power.

The shape of the Tradesman was determined, as are all locomotives that actually have working bits inside them, by the need to cram a lot of stuff into a small space. Thus a box with a cab at the end. Inside was the engine, fan, generator, bulky exhaust system and several electrical circuits. The MacFive was under the bedplate and the batteries( for the R/C and to keep the fan running after the engine was shut down to aid gentle cooling of all parts) were 2 on either side of the frames.

The link from Carl Hibbs is of a loco I sold to a chap in Norway. I think it is posed as there is no exhaust coming out. I find the idea of these locos being 'primitive' very very odd. They are very complex machines, a mobile power station and Faraday Cage and it took a lot of work and thought to get them to work reliably. I would rather like one of them back as I sold all of them when my marriage folded and I had to clear the workshop.

Barry R
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyWed Jun 15, 2011 9:55 pm

Barry,

Welcome to the forum and I have to say that you and Dave Watkins were responsible for getting me into this 'oily mess'. Many years ago you had a stand or exhibited somewhere I can't quite remember.

Anyway, your ex-machines may have had a simple exterior but at the time were (and still are....) technically intriguing inside and something we aspire to. The term 'primitive' was meant in comparative respect to Wada or Jerry Hyde both of whom had made commercially successful machines based on real prototypes.

There are few live 'diesel heads' on here approaching this aspect of garden trains from slightly different directions.
So your input would be very useful.

There have even been tentative discussions from various parts of the world on commercial viability. But I'm not sure I for one want to go that far.
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyWed Jun 15, 2011 10:24 pm

Carl

Most 16mm people want steam or very cheap battery power.

I am building a steam electric, like a diesel but with a gas fired boiler and reciprocating engine plant driving a 240 pole stepper motor, after which it is all the old diesel technology!
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyThu Jun 16, 2011 5:41 am

I have seen a few articles dotted around now that mentioned steam electrics.

It is an unusual development and there were a number of real prototypes.

We shall be very interested to see its progress. How far have you got with it?

You're right in that most people want to see (smell and hear) steam and not smoke!
There is a big cultural/tradition thing I'm sure.

One of the big issues that most people can't accept with a nitro engine is the noise and I have had so many daft comments that "it doesn't sound like a real diesel locomotive" yet almost everyone accepts the sound of a model steam engine...which sounds nothing like a real steam locomotive.
scratch
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyThu Jun 16, 2011 7:56 am

Carl

A modern 2 stroke glow plug engine is designed to rev at up to 40,000 RPM. That is insane for a back garden. An OS 4 stroke engine will idle at about 2,200 RPM and is far more civilised. Also a 4 stroke glow plug is very like a diesel engine with a hot plug.

My steam electric works, it will pull it's own weight easily. I have replaced the 2 RG7 uinits with four 5 watt Maxon motors driving super efficient gearboxesd made in the UK by ABC gears. They claim 70% efficiency. My diesels used them. I am getting a new steam inlet manifold made and them I will be able to test it with the extra power.
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyThu Jun 16, 2011 10:32 am

Well there you go - just as I was thinking of making a comment regarding diversity of live deisels and how 3 different folk are trying 3 diffent approaches (Carl - geared drive, Anton Direct Drive, and the other chappie Hydraulic drives) you come along with steam version - I know not a deisel per se but interesting to say the least. And hopefully quieter too.

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyThu Jun 16, 2011 11:12 am

I tried a diesel mechanical, albeit in a half hearted way. I used a centrifugal clutch from a model car and made a simple bevel gear reverser operated by radio. The reverser worked, but the clutch was too weak. The loco went very fast in one direction, stopped on demand by cutting the engine revs, and then it needed a huge power surge to get it going again in the other direction. So reverser was 100% and clutch was 5%.

I toyed with the idea of making a small sprung clutch but after a while gave up and decided that some wires and a generator were easier than anything mechanical!

On my diesels the cooling fan was as loud or louder than the engine exhaust.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 2:27 pm

Ive finally found a video of the masterpiece which the the Pilgrim Locomotive

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https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=599011689
Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 3:35 pm

Great video Anton, I'm sure Barry will have something to say!

The sound from that 4 stroke engine is pretty good and would satisfy most 'small-diesel heads'.

That machine is also running on 32 mm track.
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptyFri Jun 17, 2011 10:48 pm

Hi

That loco was my fist ever diesel electric, the Pilgrim Pioneer. It has a brass body, whereas all other had steel bodies. Steel is more stiif and so does not amplify the engine noise as much as brass.

I sold it to a chap who lives on the South Coast and sometime after that video he announced that it had been damaged. I know nothing more but if it had fallen off a bench the brass body would have been squashed by the weight of the steel frame and all the mobile power station that was on it.

It was/is a pure BoBo, having 4 axles and 4 RG7 units, one on each axle.
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Bearcastle

Bearcastle

Location : Brie

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 7:00 am

Nice one, have you got some pictures that show the body and the parts inside ?
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 7:08 am

Maybe you could tell us a bit more about the locomotive Barry. When was it built?

It would help some of us here to progress with their respective projects.

A few questions I have:

What did you use as a generator motor?

How was it coupled to the nitro engine?

What sort of exhaust/silencer arrangement?
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 8:07 am

No no photos at all.
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antonr91

antonr91

Location : south-east England

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 8:45 am

Barry, what make/model 4 stroke did you use in this machine? and what size was it?

I am finding that running a car engine at mid throttle for long periods of time, uses a huge amount of nitro fuel when compared to running my OS 46 engine i have in a plane, as even that at full throttle uses much less fuel. Why is this do you think? as i am going through way to much fuel at the moment and it costs ££

Could anyone tell me the difference between Cold, Medium and Hot glow plugs as well? and how the affect the engine...
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BarryReeves



Location : UK

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 12:00 pm

Get the smallest OS 4stroke engine you can. An OS FS26 which I think is not made now ran on idle at about 2300 and full power on 2600 rpm. 4 stroke engines use their own glow plugs too.

If you need lots of revs to get 12v from the generator you are using the wrong generator. The bigger and simpler the better, a big 5 pole LOW REV cheap can is ideal.

Where are you in S.E. England?
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pjti



Location : Galizano, nr Santander, Nth Spain

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 1:56 pm

Anton, I needed to check before I posted re. hot , med . cold glo plugs.

When I were a lad - we used to swap plugs on our motorbikes. In cold weather we used a hot plug (Champion N5) in hot weather we used a cold plug (N3 or N4). Reason being that a cold plug was difficult to start in cold weather and a hot plug overheated and failed in the summer. So COLD plug when engine in summer, HOT plug in winter. Thats the theory anyway, it was particularly true with 2 strokes, plugs would "oil up" very easily and prove impossible to start. Racers used to warm up the engine on hot plugs then swap over to cold plugs for racing, with the advent of Management Systems I doubt this is reuired anymore. The difference in hot or cold was basically the amount of ceramic enclosing the centre electrodehot plugs had thin insulation, cold plugs had thicker insulation. Ok if thats nice and clear you might like to read this Glow Plugs explained and this Choosing your Glo Plug

Not to be confused with Hot Plugging - a USB/Computer term.

_________________
Wake me up by noon please.

Patrick
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySat Jun 18, 2011 6:53 pm

I wouldn't get too concerned over it for the use that we are undertaking with 2 stroke engines running at comparatively slow speeds.

It matters quite a bit for different applications such as aircraft and high speed racing cars where fine tuning is important.

I've mostly used OS No.8 plugs which is a medium plug. I've tried changing plugs and I didn't notice any difference running the 'monster'.


Last edited by Carl Hibbs on Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

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PostSubject: Re: Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale   Live Diesel and/or Live Diesel Business for Sale EmptySun Jun 19, 2011 6:26 am

BarryReeves wrote:
No no photos at all.

That's a shame. Neutral
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