Joining track?

Another project i talked about is now ready to be used. To get a straight stretch of track for a siding I bolted together two lengths of T'profile metal pickets 41mm apart. I now want to join a 30cm length of LGB track to the end so it can be connected to a R1 point. The pickets will be buried so that only the track part is seen. Problem is how to attach the pickets to the brass track? Solder?, weld?, glue?





mikey

How about some brass or steel fishplates bolted through both ends?

I don't think solder, welding or glue would work between brass and steel!

That's what i was thinking Brian. I've ordered some of those screwable rail joiners from ietb at Marseille ( what a lovely man to do business with,and he speaks good english). I was hoping that i could cut into the pickets enough to insert a railjoiner and then add the lgb track;

mikey

You can't 'solder' brass to steel in the sense of simple soft (low temperature) solder but you certainly can join them by 'brazing' or 'hard soldering' at higher temperatures, typically 450°C.

I had a go many years past with limited success.
Have a look at this link for products and 'how to'.

brazing


You buy the rods and flux from BricoDepot too.

I think that "silver solder" is your only option.... The problem is -as Carl has stated, that everything operates at dull red heat! Johnson and Matthey used to make Easi-Flo2 -but since they went "Cadmium free" it has become very hard to find and you have to look for old stocks of it. The other one that does work well is Silver-Flo24. When you join your brass rail to the steel T section you will have to very almost shiny clean. The saying "You have to be a Saint to Solder" really applies.

For brass and steel you can get away with using Propane and Air. Paint a mixture of flux and water onto the joint, heat it a little, and them dip a heated end of the solder into the spare flux. Now REALLY COOK the joint until the flux on the joint melts and bubbles then touch the fluxed end of the solder to the joint. The solder will pause and then "get interested in the joint" -before it flows across the metal and then it will go a yellowish colour. Take off the heat. Now allow it to cool naturally. DO NOT use water to cool the joint. File it smooth...

Most silver solders melt at around 600-630C so remember to remove ALL the plastic sleepers from your rail!!!
If you are going to join Steel to Steel then you will have to use MAPP gas -which is getting a little hard to find in the UK. MAPP is around 30% hotter than Propane -but it does have one terrible problem. I think that it smells like a mixture of rank drain and sweaty socks

It is actually very easy!!!

regards

ralph

Thanks Ralph. not sure i am up to that but it sounds very interesting!

mikey

I returned to using silver solder about 3 years ago. Prior to that the last time I had used it was before my voice broke in 2nd year metal work!!!

regards

ralph

You could try setting them in a pool of resin - or even cement.

Braising Bloody hell Guys! At risk of being a luddite here, he only wants to join a couple of pieces of track!

I'm still in favour of the thirld world option - fishplates, otherwise i smell molten plastic sleepers and expensive disasters ahead

hehe, they just don't know my limited capabilities Brian!

Anyway I have found a luddite solution!!: I carefully measured the depth of the lgb rail and then, with my dremel grinder, cut a slit into the end of the picket parallel to the top; I then inserted an ordinary lgb rail joiner. Once the picket is partially buried it will take the strain off the joint and job's done!! (but sincere thanks for the suggestions!!)

mikey

I'm interested to see how this turns out! These pickets have potential for use in steam up areas. That is probably the simplest practical solution that you are employing Mikey.

But brazing is really not that difficult and as Ralph said most boys had a go in the physics class had school.....Just have a good fire extinguisher handy

And for joining two pieces of metal that require a strong bond it is the simplest and easiest way.

A good brazer could do what you want Mikey in about 10 minutes.

All copper plumbing is or should be brazed now.

If I was nearer I'd come and have a go.

I'm experimenting with brazing aluminium because that will save a hell of a lot of money against brass sheet for loco bodies.

Carl Hibbs wrote:

All copper plumbing is or should be brazed now.

Hi Carl, not to hijack the post but I have done brazing, silver soldering welding, even welded Cast iron in the past, but why do you say copper plumbing should be brazed now. I did loads of plumbing in the UK and had no problem with soft solder over many years, so what if anything has changed? I assumed it was just the French being idiosyncratic…With brazing all there plumbing.

Good point Peter! I did all my plumbing joints 8 years ago with 'plumbers solder' and the blowtorch my wife uses for creme caramels!
Is the difference between brazing and soldering just the temperature used?

mikeyh wrote:

Good point Peter! I did all my plumbing joints 8 years ago with 'plumbers solder' and the blowtorch my wife uses for creme caramels!
Is the difference between brazing and soldering just the temperature used?

Yes and the flux and you use brazing rods of cause, brazing is in general much stronger than solder, but then if solder doesn’t fail its obviously strong enough. I wonder if it’s the solder itself for drinking water??
I am just curious.

A word of caution about using "normal" soldering on tracks which by definition sit on ground that may become wet. I detected a dead spot on an LGB point - the older kind which has a short fixed curve on the diverging route and short point blades. It was second hand and the original link under the sleepers from the main route to the diverging route had clearly at some point failed. It had been fixed by soldering a wire between the main and diverging route - which worked for a bit, but on examination, had also failed. Could have been poor work to start with, but I would think that any soldered joint at ground level would need the very highest quality of soldering - at least. Of course if you're not using track power, this particular problem would not be noticeable, but I wouldn't rely on just soldering a joint which is carrying the weight of even small G gauge locos...

French Chuffed wrote:

Carl Hibbs wrote:

All copper plumbing is or should be brazed now.

Hi Carl, not to hijack the post but I have done brazing, silver soldering welding, even welded Cast iron in the past, but why do you say copper plumbing should be brazed now. I did loads of plumbing in the UK and had no problem with soft solder over many years, so what if anything has changed? I assumed it was just the French being idiosyncratic…With brazing all there plumbing.

I think you have answered the question mostly yourselves.

I used to do all my plumbing with soft solder until lead was banned. (I now employ French plumbers.... )The modern lead-free solders do not have the same strength.
Soft solder, depending on composition melts at (fairly low) temperatures between 183°C and 215°C.
You could melt a soft soldered joint with a cigarette lighter.

Plus, as Phil said soft soldered brass connections with lead in it can react and corrode under certain conditions in water.

I'm now very glad I plumbed my house in push fit - plastic plumbing! I had no idea that the French had upgraded from soft solder that's how I did all my plumbing in the UK with Yorkshire fittings!!!

Anyway the price of copper has gone up 50% in the last 12 months, so plastic is OK until the oil runs out next year!

GWhizz wrote:

I'm now very glad I plumbed my house in push fit - plastic plumbing! I had no idea that the French had upgraded from soft solder that's how I did all my plumbing in the UK with Yorkshire fittings!!!

I showed a French chap a Yorkshire fitting yesterday, he was most intrigued.