Brian's Live Diesel

OK Guys after ExpoRail, you've finally convinced me to come over to the dark side...

However despite your assurances of "it's simple" after looking back through all the threads, I'm still at a loss as to where to start and get all the necessary components. All I have to date is the r/c and servo's

Could you Carl/Troy? When you have time (ha ha) produce a basic guide pulling together the basic spec...

Recommended Chassis / Loco block
Which two stroke engine (I have no knowledge of glow plug engines all my model flying was with gliders) I'd be quite happy with a pull start and keep it as simple as possible!
Which generator? Gearing?
AC - DC converters etc, etc.
Exhaust silencers

No urgency as I've got my hands full with the mine module, but it would be great to have one ready for the garden next summer!
I'm thinking of a tram style body for ease of access?

No problem with any help, only glad to pass on my limited knowledge.

Troy's ran better than mine in many respects at Railexpo although I'm not sure it runs anymore....!
I'll let him tell you about that.

There has been a lot of lengthy posting concerning the evolution so a summary is good idea.

I'll put together mine over the next day or so.

Also, I am going to build a diesel machine for Van at the same time as another for myself so I will publish the builds here.

These ones are going to use ready-to-run Accucraft Baguely chassis.

I'll see if I can dig the info from my invoices at some point Brian.
I think that mine has a different sized generator and an encapsulated rectifier.Not that it makes any difference really.
I was so happy how it ran over the weekend.Carl's system works very well,but it's a hands on experiment.
Oh...and they don't like being dropped.......

Carl Hibbs wrote:

These ones are going to use ready-to-run Accucraft Baguely chassis.

Yes the metal chassis looks like a great start point! Will you be fabricating the body or use the Accucraft one if there's enough room that is ?

Here's a start on what I have done and where I have obtained things from.

Engine: Kyosho GX12 or similar (Thunder Tiger .12) This is 2 stroke 2.1 cc a bigger engine is not necessary.
You can pickup complete engines new for around 40-60 euros on e bay but you may have to wait a while. I would avoid secondhand engines unless they really appear good.

A complete engine means, pull start, carburettor and clutch. The latter can be difficult but most complete clutches for 1/10 cars will be okay. The engine crankshaft has an M5 thread.

You can buy new engines minus carb and clutch from:
http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/kyoshospares?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
He’s in Reading would you believe and very helpful.

Or I have found these and I’m just about to order 2 of them.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JV-Shop-GO-18-Engine-pullstart-Rear-/281006302494?_trksid=p5197.m1992&_trkparms=aid%3D111000%26algo%3DREC.CURRENT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D14%26meid%3D3995051520657110207%26pid%3D100015%26prg%3D1006%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D281006302494%26

We (Troy and I) have removed the clutch springs.
Normally the clutch engages at about +2,000 rpm, with the springs removed the clutch engages just after starting.

The clutch bell is (on all mine) a ‘module 1’ gear pitch. You will need a suitable pinion gear about 15 - 20 teeth for the generator works well for me.

I get mine from:
http://myworld.ebay.co.uk/blacksmithproducts?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

The generator is a 3 phase BLDC motor. I have used 910Kv which gives (approx) 1 volt for every 910rpm. This has a 5mm dia shaft. Troy uses a bigger motor.
Don’t go for high Kv values on a small motor. Go for low Kv values on a chunky motor.
I get my motors from:
http://www.rctimer.com/index.php?gOo=goods_search_list.dwt&gcat=40&p=4

To convert the 3 phase to usable DC you will need to buy a 3 phase rectifier.
Or it is just as easy to make your own. It’s just like a bridge rectifier but with 6 instead of 4 diodes.
See this thread:
http://www.cgtrains.com/t789-live-diesel-2

For engine exhaust to start with I would suggest a simple ready assembled side mounted exhaust for a racing car or aeroplane. Beware the side exhaust manifolds come in 2 sizes. The kyosho has the small size.

You will then need hardware like fuel tank, fuel tubing, filter air and fuel. These can be sourced from many e bay RC model suppliers in France or the U.K.

To reverse the output DC polarity and thus direction you can copy my simple reversing switch on page 4 of this thread:
http://www.cgtrains.com/t789p60-live-diesel-2

You will then only need a single channel RC unit.

Lastly you will need a powered chassis to run. This can really be anything you choose. The red monster things sits atop a single 100 mm USA trains power bogie.

Thanks for the info Carl - it's starting to make sense.

Funds are tight at the moment so probably won't be sourcing stuff until well int next year!

But thanks anyway!

How does one ascertain the values of the 6 individual diodes, or is one diode the same as another, when making the 3 phase rectifier.

If one wished to buy a ready made 3 phase rectifier what values would that require to pass 10-20 volts and where could one buy a ready made version.

3 phase rectifier ebay

3amp rectifier diodes ebay

For individual diodes I have even used 1N4007 series which are smaller and rated at 1amp.

Use 6 of the same type.

Just to add the gear for the end of the generator.
12 tooth cog on mine

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RW-RACING-1-MOD-PINION-5mm-BORE-SAVAGE-FLUX-HP-/160634258790?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item25668c4566#ht_516wt_1133

FYI (Anton.....)

Clutch complete (except for e clips, which you can buy from same supplier, see his shop).

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260924846341

From Blacksmith products as in the link I supplied.

I have just ordered one for Van's diesel.

Also there is this part which includes the e clip.

Clutch bearing


If anyone is browsing the net or visits a model shop and sees a Kyosho GX12 (or GX15) carburettor for sale anywhere or very cheap Kyosho engines for spares that have carbs then buy them or let me know please.

These are the most difficult and expensive part to source for these engines. I have one very kindly donated to me by a fellow modeller in Kent...
But they are always worth buying and keeping for the future.

The list price is more than a new engine!

Carl, if the Kyosho spares are rare and/or expensive what are the benefits of the Kyosho over other makes. Are they better and cheaper than others ?

Would like to know because my 4 stroke results look like I might have to buy a 2 stroke and advice on make would be helpful.

The Kyosho engines themselves can be quite reasonable to pick up from various e bay dealers but they often come without carb, clutch and even pull start.

The advantages of this engine are that certain spares are quite readily available but unfortunately not often the carb.
The Kyosho Japanese engine is well made from quality materials - Kyosho are one the oldest manufacturers of engines still in business.

The Kyosho part no. for the carburettor is 74521-14

The engines are very reliable and when run in and set up correctly are easy to start.

They are also small and compact being a .12 with a low profile cylinder head.

Don't buy an engine just yet though David.......

As mentioned in other posts, two GX12s on the way.

Is this a sensible price for a Carb? Not in stock though and is this the complete carb?

Carb

This doesn't seem like a complete carburettor to me; just the body, idle screw and spring, plus 16,90€ is too much to pay.

See the e bay link that David posted. That sounds good but as usual they don't post to France.
David might be able to do the honours again?

But don't bid on each other!

I've been looking at clutches- hee hee

Again quite confused - there are so many variants - do I need 2 shoe single speed bell housed plated

Why buy the options with springs and then take them out

Clutches are a bit difficult as there are so many variations many of which depend on engine size and scale. Many clutches will fit .12 up to .18 engines.

For the Kyosho engine one needs to look at '1/10 scale'. The Kyosho flywheel has 2 pins so will accept only a 2 shoe clutch with a spring that fits around the shoes in a groove. I would not recommend plastic shoes. Carbon fibre or aluminium are better.
The crankshaft spigot diameter is 5mm and you will need bearings that fit inside the bellhousing. These should be 10mm od x 5mm id x 4mm thick, often called 10/5/4
You will also need circlips that keep the shoes in place - 7mm and the bellhousing which I think is 4mm.
Most Kyosho part are available but not all from the same supplier. Some parts are also listed under 'Pureten Alpha'.

If you by a clutch complete even if it meets all those criteria it may not fit the flywheel so you may have to buy a clutch and compatible flywheel too.

Cor blimey! More confusion at every turn.

But wouldn't this meet all your criteria? Blacksmith



I'm an idiot I've just re-researched the very product you quoted in an earlier post, so what more bits will it need?

Yes, I have one of these and it works ok, but the aluminium flywheel is slightly different to the steel Kyosho so you need to take that one off.

Not included in the kit from Blacksmith are the circlips although he will supply them at extra cost!

He also does nice module 1 gears.

My Baguley chassis arrived today, so the bits are starting to come together!

So that'll be 3 Baguley diesels eventually.

Any thoughts about a body?

Carl Hibbs wrote:

Any thoughts about a body?

NO not yet, But it will have to differ from yours and Vans

I would simply like to get the mechanicals working first and worry about the body later!

[quote="GWhizz and worry about the body later![/quote]



At your time of life I think worrying about your body is a pointless exercise,it only adds extra stress to the daily grind which men of your age can do without.

Hi Carl some more advice required...

As I shall soon (hopefully) have a couple of engines to run in, my mind is turning to the other stuff I'll need...

5mm Pinion for the BLDC motor

Nitro Fuel (what %)

Glow plug heater

Fuel tank (ultimately I'll try and build one like yours but for testing)

Fuel Filler

Fuel Filter

Exhaust (ultimately I'll try and build one like yours but for testing)

Anything else you'd recommend

Can you recommend a ONE STOP supplier in France where I can order all these items, trying to source things seperately just isn't cost effective postage wise!

Thanks