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 A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910

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clive_t

clive_t

Location : Portsmouth, England

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyThu Sep 24, 2009 7:27 pm

With our Mikey's permission (being as it is, another commission from the man himself), I shall herein share my thoughts and such progress as I am able to make, on this latest figure. Bit of a tough one I think, this time... a mounted Gendarme of 1910!

I was wandering round Bentall's department store in Bracknell at lunchtime today, and I happened to find myself in the toy section... no, I've never really grown up... I was surprised, and pleasantly at that, in that they stock pretty much the whole Schleich range! Including this new-ish addition to the range, a Hannovarian stallion horse. I wasted no time in flashing the plastic, and for good measure acquired one of their 'human' figures too. The latter was pretty much an impulse buy, as I had no particular visions of using it for this particular exercise. I think I'll just have a go at changing it in some subtle way, to see how easy or difficult it is, or even how good or rubbish the results.

Anyway, here for comparison is the nag himself, and the 'rider' and also a Preisser G-scale figure side by side. I think we've sort of worked out that these Schleich figures pan out at about 1:19 which is not a million miles off for G-scale really. Looking at the reference pic Mikey has sent me, the top of the guy's head is about level with his horse's muzzle which kind of matches what we see here:

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 MH_Mounted_Gendarme_c1910_1

As far as my intentions toward the gendarme figure are concerned, I am thinking in terms of a Preisser upper body/limbs/head etc, and a scratch-build below the waist with a wire armature etc. That way, I get to match the legs exactly to the contours of the horse etc. I also need to make some saddlery etc - I haven't thought too much yet about exactly how I am going to achieve that, but it should be an interesting challenge for all that.

Mikey, please feel free to post the reference pic you have already sent me, and of course any others you know of... the more the merrier I think for this one!

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the Great Unfinished Railway, formerly the S&CGR
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mikeyh

mikeyh

Location : Dordogne France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 6:12 am

Its proving very difficult to find old pics of Gendarmes on horseback. in fact the one i originally sent clive, I didnt save and now cant find it!. The rural Gendarme in 1910 was a scruffy low paid individual as this pic shows (its a suicide which led to the 'Mystery of Eygurande);

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Eygurande

This painting from a little before 1910 shows the gendarmes carrying out a census of the local gypsies and is good for reference, although a little romanticised;

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Stockphotopro_2037983NKW_no_title

This varies slightly with the uniform colours i was told by the guy who works at the Gendarmerie Nationale Museum. Good luck Clive. if I find any more I'll post them on here.

Mikey
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clive_t

clive_t

Location : Portsmouth, England

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 7:48 am

Thanks Mikey... you have mail! But then you knew that didn't you (duh...)

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the Great Unfinished Railway, formerly the S&CGR
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clive_t

clive_t

Location : Portsmouth, England

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 9:43 am

OK here are the original pics that Mikey sent me a while ago when we were pondering this particular project:

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Gendrame-f5d1d

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Gardes1910_1199310168

Looking at this first pic and the 'painting' suggests that gendarmes of horse seem to wear a slightly different style of kepi - sloping at the back, a bit like a Prussian policeman's hat? Or is it my eyes badly overdue for a test!

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the Great Unfinished Railway, formerly the S&CGR
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mikeyh

mikeyh

Location : Dordogne France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 10:08 am

i think you are right Clive. In most police forces the world over the mounted branch are a bit more 'dressy'. Gendarmes being a military force would probably be even more so. I aint gonna be too picky though Very Happy

mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 11:02 am

Just a thought but are those horse mounted gendarmes wearing a 'kepi' or a 'shako'? study

The kepis were as far as I have ever seen all flat topped straight sided of pretty standard design only differing in colour. I have such a souvenir from a brief 'sejour' chez 2 REP.

The shako hats were worn by many cavalry and mounted regiments in many countries and there are numerous styles, some were indeed similar but not the same as a kepi.

The shakos often had a taller front, sloping back and smaller peak.

Over to you.... Very Happy


Last edited by Carl Hibbs on Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 11:16 am

I found this for your investigation...

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Eleves10

Shakos and not kepis...
14th of July parade, mounted Gendarmes from the military school.
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mikeyh

mikeyh

Location : Dordogne France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 11:20 am

I think you're spot on there Carl!!

mikey
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clive_t

clive_t

Location : Portsmouth, England

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 12:06 pm

Good man, Carl - thanks for any and all useful info - Shako is what I was thinking of, then... Smile

Interesting too that they still seem to sport a slightly different style of tunic, being of a 'high collar' without lapels etc. Plenty of gold braid in evidence too in both eras, by the looks!

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the Great Unfinished Railway, formerly the S&CGR
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAttlLHn3pZsTFrQUt00rgQ
Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 3:06 pm

It would have helped perhaps if had added the caption from the picture (copyright Agathe Azzis).

Du bleu pour l'Ecole des officiers de la gendarmerie nationale. Cette tenue s'inspire principalement de celle des officiers de la gendarmerie au début du XXe siècle


The blue (uniform) of the officers of the National Gendarme School. This was mainly inspired by that of the gendarmes at the beginning of the 20th century.

I found this site too for pictures of French hats and if you scroll down there is one picture of an ESM Shako.

French hats
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mikeyh

mikeyh

Location : Dordogne France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 3:28 pm

I joined the Met police in 1967 and on our first day at training school we were issued with all our uniform and i was one of those selected for ceremonial duties. My ceremonial blanket jacket had a stiff patent leather collar on it as per these gendarmes. We had to practise wearing it for days because it made your neck really sore. the idea of the stiff collar was to keep your head up and comes from the time when Armies won wars because of the way they carried themselves rather than their fighting prowess!

Mikey
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Carl Hibbs
Admin
Carl Hibbs

Location : Haute Normandie - visitors welcome

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptyFri Sep 25, 2009 8:05 pm

clive_t wrote:


........I was wandering round Bentall's department store in Bracknell at lunchtime today, ......

Apart from wandering around Bentalls what were you doing in Berkshire's finest concrete wasteland?

Is the 'Bull' still opposite Bentalls and is that grotty bandstand still in the high street?

BTW Bentalls is on the site of the original Green's the ironmongers with wooden floor, sprung doorbell and where screws and nails were sold in paper bags weighed on scales by the ounce. I found a brown 10 shilling note on the floor there once. I was rich for a month.

Next used be to Bruntons the the bookshop with a sultry, spectacled assistant whom I was deeply in love with although she never knew and a little further up was Hollingsworth's red-checked tablecloth café and model shop. He was once secretary of the Bracknell railway society and a friend of David Bailey's (DJB Engineering) father.

...I'll go back to me wine now.... drunken
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clive_t

clive_t

Location : Portsmouth, England

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySat Sep 26, 2009 8:44 am

Carl Hibbs wrote:


Apart from wandering around Bentalls what were you doing in Berkshire's finest concrete wasteland?

Is the 'Bull' still opposite Bentalls and is that grotty bandstand still in the high street?
I am doing a bit of work there for an old mate who happens to work for... DHL! Who now reside on the 6th floor of the tower block at the base of which is Bentall's.

I am back there for another week next week, by which time hopefully something else will come up that's a damned site more local to me!

I've had a little wander round the area, and I seem to remember seeing a bandstand, not sure if I remember the bull though. In fact to a lesser extent this is something of a trip down Memory Lane for me too, as back in 1994/5 I started to work for Oracle, who had a big, indeed multi-site presence in Bracknell. Many a lunchtime spent mooching round the shops there.

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the Great Unfinished Railway, formerly the S&CGR
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clive_t

clive_t

Location : Portsmouth, England

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySat Sep 26, 2009 4:08 pm

OK, so a subtle change of plan... I didn't like the Preisser figure I had originally shown for comparison, so I've switched him for the slightly more substantial German Railworker figure:

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 MH_Mounted_Gendarme_c1910_2

This is incidentally the same figure I used for Carl's gendarme, including the same head! 3 reasons for this :
(1) this face sort of fits the size of body quite nicely
(2) the hat is almost a shako already, not much needs doing to it
(3) I have this odd kind of thought, that this 1910 gendarme figure could be Carl's gendarme's ancestor, hence the similarity of the facial features! Well I did say it was odd... Shocked

But what about the legs? Well, soft aluminium florists' wire is of course my armature material of choice:

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 MH_Mounted_Gendarme_c1910_2b

I scribed marks on the wire at the point where the knee bend should be. Fitting it is the now boringly traditional drilling holes and pushing the wire in so that it's a snug fit. I also took the opportunity to pare away the unwanted lapel and collar detail from the tunic. WARNING - Scary picture coming up... affraid

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 MH_Mounted_Gendarme_c1910_3

Looking through my figure bits box, I found an approximation to a decent right arm and hand, which will eventually be holding reins. The other arm will be as it is. Here it is, held in place temporarily with Blu-Tak just to check the look of it:

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 MH_Mounted_Gendarme_c1910_4

And finally for now, an outside shot in a bit better light:

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 MH_Mounted_Gendarme_c1910_4b

I need to sort out the tack etc before I start bulking up the legs too much as that will dictate how much bulking up I need to do and where on the legs. To do that, I need to get some better reference material! But, a promising start though I says it meself.

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the Great Unfinished Railway, formerly the S&CGR
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAttlLHn3pZsTFrQUt00rgQ
mikeyh

mikeyh

Location : Dordogne France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySat Sep 26, 2009 4:23 pm

Its great to watch the transformation taking place. The figure you have chosen really looks the part (bit of a B******D)/ The saddle is the same as standard english riding saddle (you can google that) what makes it different is the dark blue ,edged with gold, saddle blanket underneath (not shown in photograph). If this turns out well I may well ask for another so we can recreate the scene in the painting!!

Mikey
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clive_t

clive_t

Location : Portsmouth, England

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 6:09 pm

Cheers Mikey - in the interests of some sort of realism, how big would such a blanket be?

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the Great Unfinished Railway, formerly the S&CGR
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mikeyh

mikeyh

Location : Dordogne France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 6:26 pm

Its about a metre square but as long as it shows a bit at the back of the saddle and along the sides.
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clive_t

clive_t

Location : Portsmouth, England

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 6:32 pm

Cool, cheers Mikey. I have been experimenting today with different materials for tack and blankets etc

_________________
Cheers,

Clive

Fat Controller of the Great Unfinished Railway, formerly the S&CGR
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAttlLHn3pZsTFrQUt00rgQ
GWhizz

GWhizz

Location : Charente, France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 6:50 pm

Don't want to pour rain on your parade chaps! but that nag looks like a Percheron to me!

Ah but in 1910 perhaps?

No self respecting mountie would ride such a beast!

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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mikeyh

mikeyh

Location : Dordogne France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 7:05 pm

Interesting you say that Brian. there are at the moment three Percherons in service with UK Police forces. After i had completed my two years probation in the met i applied to join the mounted branch. I did my three day assessment on Irish hunters, where most of the mets stock comes from. when I started my six week initial course, we all had to have ago at riding this bl**dy great horse that turned out to be a percheron. It was like being on a rollercoaster. They are becoming popular for crowd control. Just as an aside I packed up smoking and within three months had put on nearly 2 stone. they said anyone who puts weight on that fast is no good for horses. I was a Mason as well !neccessary qualification in the Met Laughing

Mikey
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Bearcastle

Bearcastle

Location : Brie

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PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 7:07 pm

It looks like a shire horse to me.

But I think I saw some percheron with the "Garde Républicaine" (gendarmerie), the one with the drumms I think, but not entirely sure.
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Bearcastle

Bearcastle

Location : Brie

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 7:15 pm

I knew there was one, here from wikipedia :

La fanfare

La fanfare du régiment de cavalerie est créée en 1849 ; elle comprend alors douze trompettes. Ses effectifs sont aujourd'hui composés d'un trompette-major, de deux timbaliers, de 14 premières trompettes, 7 deuxièmes trompettes, 4 trompettes basses, 6 trompettes cors et 4 contrebasses. Les trompettes sont montées sur des chevaux alezans ; ceux des timbaliers sont un arabo-boulonnais et un pur sang percheron, capables de supporter les 25 kilogrammes des timbales.

Les personnels de la fanfare sont des musiciens de formation, qui apprennent à monter au centre d'instruction de Saint-Germain-en-Laye. La fanfare du régiment de cavalerie est la seule formation européenne à défiler au trot.
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GWhizz

GWhizz

Location : Charente, France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 7:24 pm

I only recognise them because a French neighbour breeds them!

They make Caro's arab mare, Zelda look extremely speedy!

Mickey ( yes that's his nickname) is as passionate about Percheron as I am about trains, we often share a pastis or two comparing notes!

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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mikeyh

mikeyh

Location : Dordogne France

A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 Empty
PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 7:52 pm

Could you send me his details Brian. A friend of mine who has Friesians is desperately looking for a Percheron. we couldnt find any registered breeders in the charente or dordogne
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GWhizz

GWhizz

Location : Charente, France

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PostSubject: Re: A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910   A Mounted Gendarme, from c1910 EmptySun Sep 27, 2009 7:58 pm

That's what I love about this forum - how an innocent comment can end up with helping somebody with another aspect!

I'm sending Michel Marciquet's contact deatils by PM.

Please make sure your friend mentions "les anglais brian et caroline" when he contacts!

_________________
Brian
Brian
also blogging at
www.frenchgardenrailways.com
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