Anton's Live Diesel

The highlight for me was seeing his childhood 'Flying Scotsman' (with realistic chuffing sound) make it all the way!

mikey

mikeyh wrote:

The highlight for me was seeing his childhood 'Flying Scotsman' (with realistic chuffing sound) make it all the way!

mikey

SPOILSPORT - I have yet to watch it

Whoops! sorry Patrick

mikey

hmmmmmhmmmmm - Live deisels !!!! Sorry Anton, why do you want a mamod ?

I loved the "Sour kraut" 00 live diesel loco that the germans made, very inventive. It goes to show the variety of different things that a nitro engine can be run on.

I dont actually know why, i just thought i would love something steam again as when i was alot younger, my dad bought me a Mamod traction engine and i loved it, before i took it apart like everything i got and tried making something else. Si i thought as they are relitively cheap and very straight forward, i would like to get my hands on one

Just watched it on iplayer, one advantage of being in the UK this week.

More interesting than the first Toy Story programme!

Yes I felt a bit emotional when that Flying Scotsman crossed the line, it was an interesting programme and there are more to come (new series). The "explosion" of the sou kraut was a bit spectacular - a pity really that it did not last longer, the idea behind it was good.

pjti wrote:

The "explosion" of the sou kraut was a bit spectacular - a pity really that it did not last longer, the idea behind it was good.

Being an avid reader of all the diesel posts here, I wanted to learn whether the explosion was due to the fuel (which was presumably alcohol of some kind distilled from the sauerkraut) or one of the many problems connecting a model aircraft engine to a generator which have been so ingeniously tackled by the CGT diesel fraternity.

Well as i couldnt really tell from the video exactly what the set up was that they had as it only showed little snippets of the loco before it exploded. I dont think it was anything to do with the diesel set-up, rather the fuel it was running on but thats just my opinion. I couldnt actually see whether the loco was "Diesel Electric" or Diesel Mechanical. When the explosion happened, the engine went into a scream of high revs before it cut out suggesting that perhaps it was attached to something and it then became unattached...but that wouldnt give any explanation for the cloud of white smoke....

Im sure Carl will have another synopsis of what could have happened.

antonr91 wrote:

Im sure Carl will have another synopsis of what could have happened.

Maybe... if I could watch it. I'm in France and can't watch anything the BBC chooses not to let us watch 'Sorry not available in your area'.

I'll try and find it on You Tube unless anyone has the URL to hand.

I managed to find it easily on You Tube. The explosion occurs at the end of part 3 of 6.
Great Train Race

It looked quite good in earlier indoor trials and something that must have had a hell of of a lot of work and development to get it running as we all know from the live diesel posts on here.

It would be very beneficial if we could have more information about this machine. Shame the BBC can't give further references and details even if a few sub captions on screen or set up a website with background information. Maybe I'll try and contact the production department.

To get a nitro engine into a HO/OO chassis is incredible if you realise that some of us are using .12 cu in engines in 'G' scale and the smallest manufactured in common use I know is .10 cu in.

From the sound it was making I would surmise at being electric transmission. And indeed it looks like a straight inline engine+motor generator set up.

I don't know about the 'saurkraut' stuff. I reckon that was all just for the TV show. They would have had enough trouble just using nitro fuel.

I've never actually seen an engine 'blow up' like that either. There were a lot of batteries and what a mess...a bit of stage-managed pyrotechnics methinks....

From perhaps a selfish point of view it is a shame that they couldn't have done that using 45mm or 32 mm gauge track and ran live steam/battery/live diesel etc. That would have been a more enjoyable challenge.

I wonder what they did with all the track and equipment afterwards....

Yes Carl, about the track, that is exactly what i was thinking, if they had used either 32 or 45mm track, trains may not have given up so much and the little bumps and pieces of dirt woud not have affected the whole scene so much. I definately believe Jame May should do that again with larger scale track, as in the first Barnstable to Biderfod run he did, he investigated a G gauge garden railway and loved it, but still decided to use the 00 gauge stuff.

Your probably very correct in saying it was all staged for TV as i am becoming more and more in tune to this kind of thing happening, as they film it in documentory format to make it feel like outs all done with minimal editing but they still have events like explosions scripted in whihc make the progrma more entertaining. I have been studying this for a while as i have just completed my A2 media studies, Just had my exam yesterday which will determine whether i get into uni or not and I had to research into how, when and why documentaries added in and edited in/out certain factors which were not meant for this genre of doc and why they would always choose specific frames and shots as well as lighting to create certing moods and feelings....

But would love to know what they say if you could get in contact with them...

Pictures of the new 36v 10 amp manual speed controller as well as the start of the new body for the shunter, as i found the vaccume formed plastic shell very difficult to work with and as well as the fact that i do not have access to the vaccume machine any more.

Right, after testing the shunter today and finally getting the engine to run fine, as well as completing a large proportion of the bodywork, i have come to the conclusion that my railway in itself is very limited and actually very unstable for a top heavy loco such as this to run on (due to it being made of horny tinplate) as well as the fact that i have a vast amount of weight running on 32mm track, instead of 45 which would spread the load a bit more effectively.

I have also made a oval testing track which again, being made of tinplate, has proved very unstable and the loco derail alot, due to bent or irregular bends and bumps on the rail, which is why i presume you see very few outdoor tinplate tracks.







Does anybody know what kind of track is in this video (make)



And also a bit of a cheeky question:

Is there anybody who lives in Hertfordshire or near to and has a 32mm & 45mm track layout and wouldnt mind a few diesels being tested out on it as i am very limited on my small layout.

Looking good Anton. How are you starting this machine now?

The track in the film looks like Tenmille products to me. You could make your own 32mm track from Peco components or Brandbright.

For testing...Sorry I'm not nearer but you're welcome here in October for a weekend expo (or before even ...).
I have some 32mm track too.

I am starting it using the torpedo generator motor as it has enough power to do so. One issue i am having is that there is a serious amount of vibration when the engine is running and i mean a SERIOUS amount. I thought that the engine shaft may be bent but its fine. I then tried the motor shaft and that also also fine. I cant figure out where it is comiing from but its a bit crazy and is actually aiding to the train derailing, as well as the tinplate track

I think it would be a great idea for you to have a diesel weekend or something which i would love to attend. Yes thank you for the offer, but as you say, a little far just for a tester. Ill have to check and see what clubs are in my area that have a track as im sure they would love these locos.

I'd suspect the coupling and/or alignment.

Anton,

The problem you might be having is not vibration -but resonance? Are your engine and motor FIRMLY coupled to the plate -or are there rubber vibration dampers between the engine/motor and the plate?

Alternatively try a trick from my youth... Use Plasticine pressed into the corners of the underside to dampen down the vibration nodes. It worked a treat with my old motorcycle in my teenage days (I am now 54)....

regards

ralph

Ralph

I have used a double layer mouse-matt between motor and bottom plate as the foam allows for slight movement and misalignment while the plastic underlay makes sure everything doesnt move too much. The engine is firmly fastened down.

I have a slight suspicion it could be the coupling but im not to sure as there is not way the coupling has been bent, and it is a very tight fit on both the engines shaft and the motors shaft, so i cannot figure out what is going on.

To get an idea of how bad the vibration is, trying to change the mixture using the engines mixture needle is on the verge of actually being painful to hold, due to the amount of vibration that there is. Moreover its hard to grip with such vibration, so at the moment of a bit stuck on this.

Is this vibration new or has it always been there?

If it's new then check engine mountings - must be secure (the threads can strip in the crankcase), check flywheel (if you are using one, if not fit one), coupling - at one time I saw a pic of a hexagonal coupling with giant unbalanced off-set screws in it. Change for cylindrical coupling and grub screws.

Is the coupling a really true fit on the crankshaft?

Loosen Torpedo motor mountings and turn nitro engine by hand. Observe what happens along the crankshaft-motorshaft axis. Is it completely straight.

Disconnect torpedo motor and run it alone it to check for vibration. The bearings are not always brilliant and my one oscillates very slightly on it's axis. Allow this motor to float about a bit with your solid coupling to the engine.

If you can, run the Kyosho engine by iteslf.

I don't think the engine itself is vibrating. If there was a crankshaft problem for example it would be pretty noticeable and probably wouldn't run at all.

A new joining piece from engine to motor is what was needed and there is not no vibration what so ever, But as usual a new problem has come up.

I was running the engine this morning in the hope to make a new, more detailed video, but after about 5 minutes of running, a high pitched knocking sound started coming from the engine. It didnt make the engine cut out but sounded as if something was hitting something or grinding...

I immediately stopped the engine, and took the glow plug out. I then turned the engine over and the knocking has gone, but when the glow plug was reinserted, it started again.

Could anyone advise me as to what has happened and is it possible for the piston to hit the bottom of the glo plug?

Does/did the engine run ok otherwise?

Things to try:

Make sure you haven't got a strange 'long reach' or 4 stroke plug in there by error.

If not, is there a copper sealing washer under the glo plug or is it missing or worn?

Change glo plug for another 'normal burn' one, not one of those fancy hot or cold things!

Check piston top if there is any excessive carbon build up.

The knocking might not necessarily be physical, perhaps some sort of pre-ignition???

Try with the glo plug energised electricallyand richen the mixture a tad.

False alarm, but thank you for the advise anyway Carl. It was the coupling screw being loose, which rattles around...cant explain why the glow plug being out would make it stop though? Probably something to do with compression....

Well with some free time today, i have managed to shoot another video of the shunter, this time being far longer and more detailed with close ups as well. It is currently uploading to youtube (122 minutes ) but should be a good video.

This is the video....enjoy

One has to say that is a jolly good success.

Brilliant. I did enjoy the video.

The engine seems to run smoothly enough. Do you know how many rpm or what sort of throttle setting that was?

Just to recap because I lost the plot ages ago with the build on this.

Kyosho GX12 permanently coupled (what coupling are you using now?) to 850 DC motor driving via speed controller (what type?) to the Essel chassis.
Starting is by electric.


I think you cheated a little bit for the video and that you had run this before because I didn't see you prime the fuel and it started on the first flick...
My kyosho takes a good few pulls before it fires up from cold unprimed.

Personally I wouldn't bother with radio control it's great as it is. If you are using the speed controller just make it adjustable manually from the outside of the loco.

I don't think the Essel chassis likes your trackwork.....

BTW there aren't many live diesels on 32mm track. You are one of a small elite worldwide group.

Yes the engine is running very nicely now and i am happy with how this machine is functioning now. Im sorry, i could not say what RPM it is doing, but it was about quarter throttle. My mixture is set at 3 full turns.

Yes Gx directly coupled to 850 torpedo. I am using a aluminium round bar joining piece with 4mm bolts. I am not using a speed controller. I just have the 36v voltage regulator which gives out whatever the input is. 15v input>15v output and so on...So the higher the RPM, the more power goes into the regulator and the more power that can then be sent to the wheels. It is a variable regulator as shown in this video

Controlling a live diesel:


And to answer your question, yes it had be running prior to the video but it usually start first/second time anyway...

And the plan was to have this one manual control and the warship using complete RC.

And ive gathered that, as most if not all but one machine i have seen so far (Dave Watkins) have used 45mm gauge, so im very pleased with that. I would say that the downside to 32mm is that generally the workspace you have is smaller, and the centre of gravity is not spread out so much as its only 32mm which gives my machine a tendency to topple over, especially as im suing tinplate track that sits in the garden getting all weathered etc.

I would love to try it out on a proper layout ....any takers...